This tiny submarine 2.4 miles under the sea, visiting the relics of RMS Titanic. Can it be found and the crew saved before the air runs out?

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The last survivor on The Titanic died in 2009.
Why on earth do ghoulish thrill-seekers wish to visit the grave of her fellow passengers?

Bizarrely I've read that the Ocean Gate CEO's wife lost her great grand parents on the Titanic. Not sure how much truth is in it but I'm sure we'll find out.
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
Bizarrely I've read that the Ocean Gate CEO's wife lost her great grand parents on the Titanic. Not sure how much truth is in it but I'm sure we'll find out.

Probably about as much truth as all the rest of the utter bollocks, based on wild uninformed speculation, spouted about this tragic episode in the last six days.
 
OP
OP
Accy cyclist

Accy cyclist

Legendary Member
What should be a radio/tv phone in I'd be listening to now as I post has been cancelled so they can have a debate about this tragedy. They've been on about it all evening since the 'no survivors' news came out. Sad, but life goes on. They have different presenters saying the same stuff over and over again.
 
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Lee_M

Guru
Been following this with my materials engineer hat on with some degree of dismay.

There's a reason really deep sea diving vehicles are spherical and largely made of steel. And not a cigar-shaped CFRP-titanium hybrid. The basic maths, engineering design, manufacturing and material properties are pretty self-explanatory.

My best bet is that it's one of two things.

a) propagation of failure at a stress raiser - either the viewport or where the ends bolt on to the sub.

b) catastrophic failure of the carbon fibre layup due to an air bubble / manufacturing defect.

The first is pretty well much what it says on the tin. Especially since we now know that the viewport wasn't rated to the depths the sub was operating at.

The second is less obvious to the layman, which is where a manufacturing defect in the layup - an air bubble - causes cracking in the internal structure. On a one-off dive it may well hold, but repeated i.e. cyclic loading will mean that the bubble keeps expanding and contracting as the pressure changes, increasing the size of the damaged area and weakening the structure as microscopic cracks and delaminations propagate through the matrix. And since you can't see it, you won't know it's there until it fails. CFRP doesn't fail in the same way as metal, and when it does, it just shatters, more often than not without prior warning.

Am a bit out of practice on the maths these days, but after seven years in academia spent doing various things with composites including smashing them up, I can still visualise the failure processes in my head. :blush:

I know it's a bit heartless in the way, but purely from an engineering perspective, the sub was an omnishambles that should never have been allowed off dry land.

Having worked in submarine systems design many years ago, it always seemed a forlorn hope from the moment I heard about the loss of contact.

At those depths, even a minor flaw could be catastophic.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Of course. The media profit from tragedies more than anything else. They'll milk it for all its worth and when the report from any investigation is released they'll milk it some more. Nothing new.

And now it's turn for the solicitors to profit. Depending on which news outlet one may or may not believe those disclaimers are of varying use as protection against civil claims, and zero against and criminal charges that may arise.
 

captain nemo1701

Space cadet. Deck 42 Main Engineering.
Location
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Many people have died diving in Scapa Flow, or for that matter on holiday doing stripy fish dives in warm clear waters, or rambling up Scafell in the lake district for that matter. Presumably these should also be declared as graves and visits permanently banned. Likewise the tour de France after that poor guy was killed a week or so back

Ban anything vaguely dangerous, particularly if I don't do it myself and don't have a clue about it

There does seem to be a societal obsession with the Titanic, that was my point. You don't get it with, say, modern disasters where entire planes full of people die. You don't get museums opening for things like that so people can go 'oooh..just think, that (object) was on the XYZ'. I think its time to call it a day on the Titanic. Yes, people do die on stripy fish dives but the Titanic is different, society seems obsessed with it. So I respect to those who died over a century ago and recently, maybe let it lie?.
 
Been following this with my materials engineer hat on with some degree of dismay.

There's a reason really deep sea diving vehicles are spherical and largely made of steel. And not a cigar-shaped CFRP-titanium hybrid. The basic maths, engineering design, manufacturing and material properties are pretty self-explanatory.

My best bet is that it's one of two things.

a) propagation of failure at a stress raiser - either the viewport or where the ends bolt on to the sub.

b) catastrophic failure of the carbon fibre layup due to an air bubble / manufacturing defect.

The first is pretty well much what it says on the tin. Especially since we now know that the viewport wasn't rated to the depths the sub was operating at.

The second is less obvious to the layman, which is where a manufacturing defect in the layup - an air bubble - causes cracking in the internal structure. On a one-off dive it may well hold, but repeated i.e. cyclic loading will mean that the bubble keeps expanding and contracting as the pressure changes, increasing the size of the damaged area and weakening the structure as microscopic cracks and delaminations propagate through the matrix. And since you can't see it, you won't know it's there until it fails. CFRP doesn't fail in the same way as metal, and when it does, it just shatters, more often than not without prior warning.

Am a bit out of practice on the maths these days, but after seven years in academia spent doing various things with composites including smashing them up, I can still visualise the failure processes in my head. :blush:

I know it's a bit heartless in the way, but purely from an engineering perspective, the sub was an omnishambles that should never have been allowed off dry land.

Stretching my memory back to when I was a marine engineer on subs; and only estimating the dimensions of Titan from published photos, I estimate that to get to the depths required, a cylinder with hemispherical ends would need to be of good alloy steel about 150mm thick.
 

HMS_Dave

Grand Old Lady
There does seem to be a societal obsession with the Titanic, that was my point. You don't get it with, say, modern disasters where entire planes full of people die. You don't get museums opening for things like that so people can go 'oooh..just think, that (object) was on the XYZ'. I think its time to call it a day on the Titanic. Yes, people do die on stripy fish dives but the Titanic is different, society seems obsessed with it. So I respect to those who died over a century ago and recently, maybe let it lie?.

That's true. Not many seem particularly interested in the fact that just last month a Chinese vessel scavenged the wreck of HMS Repulse. Both HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse have been routinely picked at by scrap metal dealers for it's pre-war steel for for around a decade, routinely hit by explosives. It is a "protected" military grave... fat lot of use that is. May a date be set with Davy Jones' locker for these ghouls...
 
The last survivor on The Titanic died in 2009.
Why on earth do ghoulish thrill-seekers wish to visit the grave of her fellow passengers?

Probably the same reason people go to visit the Pyramids, various war graves, famous graveyards like Highgate Cemetary, the tomb of the unkown soldier etc...
Also I think theres quite a lot of nostalgia and mystique about the Titanic.
I've just read that the young lad who died didnt want to go and was terrified but felt he had to go because his Dad. Thats really sad.
 
Stretching my memory back to when I was a marine engineer on subs; and only estimating the dimensions of Titan from published photos, I estimate that to get to the depths required, a cylinder with hemispherical ends would need to be of good alloy steel about 150mm thick.

I wonder why he went with 5 inch thick carbon fibre ?
 
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