The Subway E and other Carrera E bikes thread.

[daisyj]

The battery and holder could a bit snug in fitment. A few removals should help loosen up. You could also use a carbon lubricant, by using a pencil and rub a few contact points. Its an excellent dry lubricant

Great tip, thank you.

 

[flyingdownhill]

Hi, has anyone fitted a light to their Carrera? The manual says there's a switch for one but has no instructions on fitting.
I don't have one, it's on the shortlist and a permanent light would be useful.
Thanks

 

[OldManToy]

Hi everyone - I hope one of you more experienced folk here can advise me. I have the e-spec Subway, 2021 model. I came off it today and bent the right crank so will need to replace it. I have a bunch of parts from other bikes and if I get lucky might be able to save money and re-cycle an older crank set. However, before doing that I've read that there's a torque sensor somewhere on the crank arm but for this model (see pic) I just can't see it anywhere. So any tips, links to the manual, experience etc would be much appreciated!

 

[Drago]

Long term report. My Subway E is near on 3 years and 4500 miles old now, needing so far only one new chain and one tyre. Its been faultless, and still provides a regular boost to my 270lb+ of manly lardiness.

 

[bonzobanana]

When you consider Halfords take 25p in the £ for every £ spent in the UK on cycling and have an estimated 40% market share for bikes and ebikes have been stated as 11% of their bikes sales I think last year and The Suntour HESC system features on a huge number of their ebike models I think the poor reliability of them has been vastly over-stated. There are a huge number of such ebikes are the road including some gig economy ebike riders who have youtube channels and chalk up a huge number of miles on them without issue. I think the average price of a bike sold in the UK is about £400-450 and that includes ebikes. That figure may have changed it was a year or so back and dramatic bike inflation has happened more recently. I'm personally not keen on proprietary ebike solutions though, it can be difficult to get parts and this can put a use by date on such ebikes when parts are no longer available. I think the hub motor has a non-standard connector and the hub motor itself is more difficult to get into and the torque sensor assembly can be expensive to replace. This is a common issue for pre-built ebikes from any UK/US/European brand or shop though unless it's the cheaper Chinese brand ebikes which use more standard components that are more easily replaced and serviced and despite their low entry price are the ebikes most easy to keep on the road at reasonable cost.

One of the huge benefits of the Suntour HESC system over mid-drives is because the motor operates independently of the drivetrain not only does the drivetrain wear out considerably slower than a mid-drive ebike but considerably slower than a normal bicycle too and unlike most hub motor systems it's torque sensor based so feels more like a typical mid-drive motor in use which also mainly use torque sensors.

 

[Drago]

I agree young Bonzo. During 2020 Halfords were claiming to sell mare Carrera ebikes in the UK than all other brands combined, yet surf the ebike specific forums and complains about HESC+ are nowhere near being in the majority, not by a long chalk.

My new Trek is Bosch, and it's zero Bosch that seems to get the most hits on the furms for faults, yet its the one they tell newbies to steer for with their wallets. Hmm.

But for daily use the Subwwy remains my hack.

 

[mustang1]

When you consider Halfords take 25p in the £ for every £ spent in the UK on cycling and have an estimated 40% market share for bikes and ebikes have been stated as 11% of their bikes sales I think last year and The Suntour HESC system features on a huge number of their ebike models I think the poor reliability of them has been vastly over-stated. There are a huge number of such ebikes are the road including some gig economy ebike riders who have youtube channels and chalk up a huge number of miles on them without issue. I think the average price of a bike sold in the UK is about £400-450 and that includes ebikes. That figure may have changed it was a year or so back and dramatic bike inflation has happened more recently. I'm personally not keen on proprietary ebike solutions though, it can be difficult to get parts and this can put a use by date on such ebikes when parts are no longer available. I think the hub motor has a non-standard connector and the hub motor itself is more difficult to get into and the torque sensor assembly can be expensive to replace. This is a common issue for pre-built ebikes from any UK/US/European brand or shop though unless it's the cheaper Chinese brand ebikes which use more standard components that are more easily replaced and serviced and despite their low entry price are the ebikes most easy to keep on the road at reasonable cost.

One of the huge benefits of the Suntour HESC system over mid-drives is because the motor operates independently of the drivetrain not only does the drivetrain wear out considerably slower than a mid-drive ebike but considerably slower than a normal bicycle too and unlike most hub motor systems it's torque sensor based so feels more like a typical mid-drive motor in use which also mainly use torque sensors.

I think the riding naturally feel of a hub motor e-bike is not as good as a mid-drive motor e-bike. But yeah you're right in that the hub-motor bikes have less wear on the drivetrain. I have a mid-motor e-MTB and for it's use, that's the only way I would go for off road use. I would still prefer a mid-drive setup for road use too but I think I'll be ok with a hub drive.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I used to have an ebike with the SUntour system (not a Carrera) and it seemed fine

until I swapped it (long story) for an ebike with a Bosch mid drive - much nicer feel
although if I had never tried a Bosch one I would have been perfectly happy with the other one

other point is that I seemto go through a chain and cartridge about once a year - presumably due to the mid drive system using the drive chain and the motor cutoff tending to mean that I stay in 4th gear most of the time and hence wear out the teeth on that one gear

 

[Drago]

I think the riding naturally feel of a hub motor e-bike is not as good as a mid-drive motor e-bike.

Now I have one of each I think there's little to choose either way.

Certainly I think an MTB is deffo better with mid drive to keep the mass off the rear wheel, but in every other scenario I find there is barely a fag paper between them for feel, assistance levels, or their ability to help shove my 277lbs up any incline.

The only slight blot on the Suntour copybook is the fractional delay between human foot applying the power and the motor waking up, but that is a Suntour issue rather than anything inherent to about hub drives that makes it so. The delay is so tiny I hadn't really noticed it until I got the Trek and had a benchmark to compare against, but it there. Other than thwt they're closely comparable, and it'd take a really anal ebike magazine journey to find any substantive difference.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Good point - I think in many cases the difference is between cheap systems and more expensive ones
The cheap ones all tend to be hub drive so that is what most people have seen - all the hib drives tend to start at a higher price point and are that little bit more sophisticated and so appear better
Higher quality hub motors may be pretty similar to hub motors
I have seen reviews on the topic which recommend hub motors for some uses - but only decent quality ones

 

[bonzobanana]

I think the riding naturally feel of a hub motor e-bike is not as good as a mid-drive motor e-bike. But yeah you're right in that the hub-motor bikes have less wear on the drivetrain. I have a mid-motor e-MTB and for it's use, that's the only way I would go for off road use. I would still prefer a mid-drive setup for road use too but I think I'll be ok with a hub drive.

The Suntour HESC is torque sensor based like most mid-drive motors so the more effort you put in the more the motor assists this is different to the majority of hub motors that have cadence sensors or throttles. I think the torque of a suntour HESC is somewhere around 45Nm which is weaker than most mid-drive motors.

 

[Drago]

HESC+ is 60NM, so Suntour say.

The Bosch Performande line in my Trek is, allegedly, 75NM, although I don't believe it because a) it doesn't provide any more grunt than my Subway, b) that's verging as much as a small city car, and c) there is no legally binding industry standard method of measurement so manufacturers can and do claim whatever suits them with impunity.

More typical Bosch units like the Active Line are claimed 50NM,

 

[bonzobanana]

Now I have one of each I think there's little to choose either way.

Certainly I think an MTB is deffo better with mid drive to keep the mass off the rear wheel, but in every other scenario I find there is barely a fag paper between them for feel, assistance levels, or their ability to help shove my 277lbs up any incline.

The only slight blot on the Suntour copybook is the fractional delay between human foot applying the power and the motor waking up, but that is a Suntour issue rather than anything inherent to about hub drives that makes it so. The delay is so tiny I hadn't really noticed it until I got the Trek and had a benchmark to compare against, but it there. Other than thwt they're closely comparable, and it'd take a really anal ebike magazine journey to find any substantive difference.

According to some Chinese industry statistics I saw a year or so back over 95% of ebikes manufactured in China are hub motor based. The remaining 5% is split between brushed motor ebike kits (very popular in India and poorer countries of Asia) and more premium mid-drive motors. Of course that is all about price and reliability and not performance. Personally my preference is a hub motor with a throttle for road use and mid-drive for an e-mountain bike. I wouldn't want to ride long distances with a mid-drive ebike. I'm a heavy rider so strength and reliabliity is very important to me.

 

[bonzobanana]

HESC+ is 60NM, so Suntour say.

The Bosch Performande line in my Trek is, allegedly, 75NM, although I don't believe it because a) it doesn't provide any more grunt than my Subway, b) that's verging as much as a small city car, and c) there is no legally binding industry standard method of measurement so manufacturers can and do claim whatever suits them with impunity.

More typical Bosch units like the Active Line are claimed 50NM,

You lose some Nm through the chain and even more if the chain or drivetrain is worn. The other issue is the gearing. If a Bosch motor claims 75Nm that is about 72Nm in reality however gearing is also a factor to get 72Nm you would need 1:1 gearing like 32T at the front and 32T at the back but many such bikes have higher gearing than 1:1 gearing. So if you have a 42T at the front and 32T at the rear that is 72Nm x 32/42 is less than 55Nm. Also mid-drives often have peak Nm for a shorter time as they are more likely to overheat due to being based around a much smaller high rpm motor. Also smaller Bosch battery packs probably won't be able to provide the 20-22A required for peak output. You might need a 625Wh battery pack to provide the maximum discharge rate. Bosch mid-drive motors need about 700-800W to provide their peak Nm which not all battery packs can provide especially if close to being fully discharged. Legal hub motors are more like 7A continous discharge and 11A peak discharge. Bosch a bit like the dieselgate fiasco which they were heavily involved in are a company that pushes the boundaries of legality.

 

[Drago]

Yeah, within the legal limit the better systems are all much of a muchness now.