The Retirement Thread

[Dirk]

Anyway.......back to the important stuff.
Haddock & Chips washed down with Proper Job.
Happy days.

 

[Dave7]

Anyway.......back to the important stuff.
Haddock & Chips washed down with Proper Job.
Happy days.

View attachment 571100

View attachment 571101

Now that IS important.
Curry, rice and naan for me shortly (don't call me shortly).
I am going to watch a film I recorded....Heat. Anyone seen it ??

 

[welsh dragon]

Baked potatoe and corned beef for us.

We baked the potatoes in the wood burner.

 

[rustybolts]

A word (or rather many words).

I am a gay woman. My partner, like me, is a woman. We've been together for many years. This is not me coming out to you, I've been referring to my partner Danni for some time, and identifying her with her correct pronouns. I was glad of this place, because I was able to
able to come along to this thread on this site without feeling that I needed to conceal that fact about me, or my partner Danni.

We've socialised in LGBT venues, and clubs most of our adult lives. I first met Danni in a gay pub. The human race managed to make some progress over the last couple of decades to the point where we (LGBT folk) felt we had gained acceptance. We have a considerable number of friends who are LGBT, they all identify differently. Those clubs and venues that used to be available to us, are now mostly gone, because actually we didn't need them nearly so much, we could manage to be comfortable in the maintream arena. Though many of us miss those places on one level, there is the acknowledgement that they were disappearing because some progress had been made.

Not enough progress mind you, pupils discovering their teacher is gay is still newsworthy, will become a 'story' and can lead to parents writing to heads, and governors, and education authorities, and local newspapers, and Peirs Morgan, Jeremy Clarkson or any other Trumpwit or gobshite with a high profile.

Trans people have it much worse, I mean much much worse, I mean much, much, much much worse. If you are a trans person, you can't pick up a newspaper, turn on the radio, the television, look at social media platforms like facebook or Twitter without reading something vile said against you or others like you. You can't look anywhere without seeing a reference to you in some way, people sneering or taunting each other (it's only banter!) Trans people after having their own human rights recognised in law nearly twenty years ago, are now the topic of non stop comment, their lives are pored over seemingly every minute of every day. Royals and celebrities can at least garner certain protections because they can benefit from some support from the public, and of course, they have access to money. Trans people can not, they are ordinary folk, who after being given legal rights years ago, are now the focus of public ridicule, attack from politicians, from liberals on the left, and reactionaries on the right.

This place was special to me. I could come to this thread on this site, not read the spite, the hate, the ridicule that was all around everywhere else. This place was Last of the Summer Wine for me, good-hearted retired folk with a common interest. It was a place far away from the racists, homophobes, transphobes and other assorted bigots. I miss that. Now it has become like everywhere else, a place where I read frequent negative references, some spiteful, some intended to be banter, but it isn't, because LGBT are like you, just trying to have a life, hoping to enjoy their time with others without hearing constant references to them being 'other', outside the group.

I watched QI on the TV last night and was reminded of The Jagged Principle. This is the principle that says that if you take a set of averages of human physiological and psychological factors, you can't make one size fit all. Every attempt fails. Imagine a bicycle maker making one size of bicycle ignoring the Jagged Principle, one frame size, one set of components all based on one set of averages, no adjustability. We would easily predict the failure of that company because in a sense, that is a most extreme form of bigotry, where human difference is recognised, but not accommodated. All bicycles will be one size and one colour etc, no deviation. Imagine the chaos of a world where the Jagged Principle was imposed by law. Every design shall be rationalised, there shall be no room for individuality; every person must make themselves average or made to live as if they are, even where clearly they are not.

Bike makers used to make bikes in many sizes. Reading threads in places like these, we see that capitalism is now reducing our choices, bike makers are rationalising their ranges.

Race bikes were classified as the the 'lightweight hillclimb weapon', the 'endurance one', the 'aero one', the 'fast descent one'. They are now rationalising, their marketing departments are now telling us that their remaining model is now 'faster everywhere'. We know this is bullshit. As a result we are sold the idea that we need disc brakes to be faster everywhere, aero tubing to faster everywhere, integrated cockpits to be faster everywhere, stiffer frames to be faster everywhere, higher volume tyres to be faster everywhere. They are cutting down on the number of frame sizes available and removing some adjustability. This is not about improved adaptability, they are selling us their bigotry, and charging us more for it.

One size does not fit all, the Jagged Principle shows us so. We now lament that bikes are going back to being fewer models for specialists, heavier frames, heavier brakes, heavier tyres, and less adjustability. But they charge us more now, for offering us less, less recognition of the Jagged Principle, less accommodation for those whose requirements are a bit more specific, less room for individuality.

While as cyclists we note these changes, we know that we can't be or match pro riders even if we ride the same bikes, we don't have the Watts, the skills, the youth etc. We hope not to be ridiculed as cyclists because we generate less power than the average athlete, because we can't remain in the saddle for 24 hours - no we hope that being a cyclist is enough for us to gain a friendly wave from all other passing cyclists regardless of whom they happen to be. I always understood that is the way the cycling community is, always richly diverse and unconcerned with difference.

That was my impression of coming here. Me, an openly gay woman, here with other because I love cycling, not because of whom I love, there is no interaction of these ideals, they are separate and distinct from each other.

Recently I have been making excuses for my absence. Yes my Mum's passing is a fact, yes I have had to arrange a funeral remotely, yes the funeral is next Wednesday.

The reality is that I've being going away and popping back at intervals because this place is changing. I've been waiting for it to revert, but instead I've come back to see so much shite written by people that I have come to have affection for. Genuine affection at that. And it hurts. Bigotry is no subject for banter. I know each of you regulars to know that you are kind-hearted people. I know this because you have been so kind, when I have been recovering, and when I lost Mum.

So now what is fuelling this frequent referencing of others who happen to be different? The answer I'm sorry to say that it is gullibility. It's the belief driven by the media that trans people have become shrill, screeching harpies who are demanding rights, more rights than others, forcing their rights on others, impinging on the rights of others, being a threat to society.

It's not true. Like the clever marketing of the bigotry of bicycle makers who try to make us believe the are offering us more rather than less, this is the work of a much different kind of bigot; those who believe that all others should fit in with their sense of ideals, rather than they fit in with others, For they are the kingpins, they are ordained by the agency of God, of nature, of science, of any other agency or dogma they are steeped in.

And now this disease (bigotry) is pervading all places. There's nowhere safe for people like me. I don't believe that these same people I have known and loved have suddenly become infected by this disease. I know that to you it seems like banter, but I have to tell you, every time I come here now, my heart sinks a bit further, because each time your banter reminds me of the real bigotry that pervades every other place. It's like there is no escape, and as I write this, I'm actually pulling at my hair.

Sorry to hear this , I was not aware of anything offensive here, usually older folk are more comfortable in their own skin and easy going . There is a fair bit of leg pulling here which adds to the enjoyment.I found many people here very witty and funny n clever. They
take a joke and laugh at themselves , confess their senior moments and openly give windows and glimpses into their lives , even recall pivotal moments in their lives . I find the contributors here very interesting and its great to drop in for a few minutes and see whats going on . I have learned a lot from the people here and been very impressed by them. I put put up a video clip yesterday from the film "East is East" where the downtrodden wife finally explodes and comes into her own , defending her son from other peoples crap . I hope you were not offended by it or the Irish female astronaut sketch. Its hard to say anything without filtering it in your head first in case you trod on anybodys toes. Statues have been pulled down etc and people have a lower flash point than prior . What some people/folk/persons/human beings found amusing in earlier times can now set off other folk .

 

[Mo1959]

Now that IS important.
Curry, rice and naan for me shortly (don't call me shortly).
I am going to watch a film I recorded....Heat. Anyone seen it ??

Is that the Robert de Niro one or am I confused as usual?

 

[Dave7]

Is that the Robert de Niro one or am I confused as usual?

That's the one.....just about to watch it.

 

[Mo1959]

That's the one.....just about to watch it.

Years since I watched it, but was good.

 

[monkers]

Sorry to hear this , I was not aware of anything offensive here, usually older folk are more comfortable in their own skin and easy going . There is a fair bit of leg pulling here which adds to the enjoyment.I found many people here very witty and funny n clever. They
take a joke and laugh at themselves , confess their senior moments and openly give windows and glimpses into their lives , even recall pivotal moments in their lives . I find the contributors here very interesting and its great to drop in for a few minutes and see whats going on . I have learned a lot from the people here and been very impressed by them. I put put up a video clip yesterday from the film "East is East" where the downtrodden wife finally explodes and comes into her own , defending her son from other peoples crap . I hope you were not offended by it or the Irish female astronaut sketch. Its hard to say anything without filtering it in your head first in case you trod on anybodys toes. Statues have been pulled down etc and people have a lower flash point than prior . What some people/folk/persons/human beings found amusing in earlier times can now set off other folk .

Thanks for this.

For the sake of accuracy I will say that I have not said that anything I've read on this thread has been offensive. Like you I have a lot of admiration for pretty much all contributors to this thread.

There has been so very much negative publicity and commentary in recent years in the media. Many ongoing jokes have been spawned. Lawrence Fox has even set up his own new political party dedicated to the intolerance of others. He even tried to put cyclists in Room 101 on that show of the same name, because he doesn't like the way they dress and use the same road that he is trying to speed down in his RangeRover.

What I am seeing, are genuine kind-hearted folk falling into the trap of reciting the current 'I identify' jokes and tropes which all serve to intensify and reinforce the spite and hate being felt by trans folk in their lives outside of this place. I do know that trans folk exist on this site as I have introduced this site to a couple of friends who have signed up on my recommendation, only for them to find a creeping sense of intolerance and the number of threads giving opportunities to trans bashers increasing.

This doesn't mean that I'm offended per se, or that I think that everyone on a thread is some kind of bigot, but I'm admitting a sense of weariness of having to look at the screen and shouting 'why?', 'what is wrong when good people are falling into the trap of casual bigotry, when I know that inside they are not bigots but good kind-hearted people.

 

[BoldonLad]

A word (or rather many words).

I am a gay woman. My partner, like me, is a woman. We've been together for many years. This is not me coming out to you, I've been referring to my partner Danni for some time, and identifying her with her correct pronouns. I was glad of this place, because I was able to
able to come along to this thread on this site without feeling that I needed to conceal that fact about me, or my partner Danni.

We've socialised in LGBT venues, and clubs most of our adult lives. I first met Danni in a gay pub. The human race managed to make some progress over the last couple of decades to the point where we (LGBT folk) felt we had gained acceptance. We have a considerable number of friends who are LGBT, they all identify differently. Those clubs and venues that used to be available to us, are now mostly gone, because actually we didn't need them nearly so much, we could manage to be comfortable in the maintream arena. Though many of us miss those places on one level, there is the acknowledgement that they were disappearing because some progress had been made.

Not enough progress mind you, pupils discovering their teacher is gay is still newsworthy, will become a 'story' and can lead to parents writing to heads, and governors, and education authorities, and local newspapers, and Peirs Morgan, Jeremy Clarkson or any other Trumpwit or gobshite with a high profile.

Trans people have it much worse, I mean much much worse, I mean much, much, much much worse. If you are a trans person, you can't pick up a newspaper, turn on the radio, the television, look at social media platforms like facebook or Twitter without reading something vile said against you or others like you. You can't look anywhere without seeing a reference to you in some way, people sneering or taunting each other (it's only banter!) Trans people after having their own human rights recognised in law nearly twenty years ago, are now the topic of non stop comment, their lives are pored over seemingly every minute of every day. Royals and celebrities can at least garner certain protections because they can benefit from some support from the public, and of course, they have access to money. Trans people can not, they are ordinary folk, who after being given legal rights years ago, are now the focus of public ridicule, attack from politicians, from liberals on the left, and reactionaries on the right.

This place was special to me. I could come to this thread on this site, not read the spite, the hate, the ridicule that was all around everywhere else. This place was Last of the Summer Wine for me, good-hearted retired folk with a common interest. It was a place far away from the racists, homophobes, transphobes and other assorted bigots. I miss that. Now it has become like everywhere else, a place where I read frequent negative references, some spiteful, some intended to be banter, but it isn't, because LGBT are like you, just trying to have a life, hoping to enjoy their time with others without hearing constant references to them being 'other', outside the group.

I watched QI on the TV last night and was reminded of The Jagged Principle. This is the principle that says that if you take a set of averages of human physiological and psychological factors, you can't make one size fit all. Every attempt fails. Imagine a bicycle maker making one size of bicycle ignoring the Jagged Principle, one frame size, one set of components all based on one set of averages, no adjustability. We would easily predict the failure of that company because in a sense, that is a most extreme form of bigotry, where human difference is recognised, but not accommodated. All bicycles will be one size and one colour etc, no deviation. Imagine the chaos of a world where the Jagged Principle was imposed by law. Every design shall be rationalised, there shall be no room for individuality; every person must make themselves average or made to live as if they are, even where clearly they are not.

Bike makers used to make bikes in many sizes. Reading threads in places like these, we see that capitalism is now reducing our choices, bike makers are rationalising their ranges.

Race bikes were classified as the the 'lightweight hillclimb weapon', the 'endurance one', the 'aero one', the 'fast descent one'. They are now rationalising, their marketing departments are now telling us that their remaining model is now 'faster everywhere'. We know this is bullshit. As a result we are sold the idea that we need disc brakes to be faster everywhere, aero tubing to faster everywhere, integrated cockpits to be faster everywhere, stiffer frames to be faster everywhere, higher volume tyres to be faster everywhere. They are cutting down on the number of frame sizes available and removing some adjustability. This is not about improved adaptability, they are selling us their bigotry, and charging us more for it.

One size does not fit all, the Jagged Principle shows us so. We now lament that bikes are going back to being fewer models for specialists, heavier frames, heavier brakes, heavier tyres, and less adjustability. But they charge us more now, for offering us less, less recognition of the Jagged Principle, less accommodation for those whose requirements are a bit more specific, less room for individuality.

While as cyclists we note these changes, we know that we can't be or match pro riders even if we ride the same bikes, we don't have the Watts, the skills, the youth etc. We hope not to be ridiculed as cyclists because we generate less power than the average athlete, because we can't remain in the saddle for 24 hours - no we hope that being a cyclist is enough for us to gain a friendly wave from all other passing cyclists regardless of whom they happen to be. I always understood that is the way the cycling community is, always richly diverse and unconcerned with difference.

That was my impression of coming here. Me, an openly gay woman, here with other because I love cycling, not because of whom I love, there is no interaction of these ideals, they are separate and distinct from each other.

Recently I have been making excuses for my absence. Yes my Mum's passing is a fact, yes I have had to arrange a funeral remotely, yes the funeral is next Wednesday.

The reality is that I've being going away and popping back at intervals because this place is changing. I've been waiting for it to revert, but instead I've come back to see so much shite written by people that I have come to have affection for. Genuine affection at that. And it hurts. Bigotry is no subject for banter. I know each of you regulars to know that you are kind-hearted people. I know this because you have been so kind, when I have been recovering, and when I lost Mum.

So now what is fuelling this frequent referencing of others who happen to be different? The answer I'm sorry to say that it is gullibility. It's the belief driven by the media that trans people have become shrill, screeching harpies who are demanding rights, more rights than others, forcing their rights on others, impinging on the rights of others, being a threat to society.

It's not true. Like the clever marketing of the bigotry of bicycle makers who try to make us believe the are offering us more rather than less, this is the work of a much different kind of bigot; those who believe that all others should fit in with their sense of ideals, rather than they fit in with others, For they are the kingpins, they are ordained by the agency of God, of nature, of science, of any other agency or dogma they are steeped in.

And now this disease (bigotry) is pervading all places. There's nowhere safe for people like me. I don't believe that these same people I have known and loved have suddenly become infected by this disease. I know that to you it seems like banter, but I have to tell you, every time I come here now, my heart sinks a bit further, because each time your banter reminds me of the real bigotry that pervades every other place. It's like there is no escape, and as I write this, I'm actually pulling at my hair.

Hi @monkers.

I don't know, since you don't say, which particular bit of "banter" may have upset you.

I fear that I may have been instrumental in some of it, by ribbing @Mo1959 about her use of the terms "girls" to refer to grown women. If I have upset you, then, I am very upset at having done so, it was most definitely, NOT my intention.

Your description of your personal lifestyle comes as no big surprise, to me, but, is not relevant to anything I may have posted.

Hope you stay with us

 

[numbnuts]

Anyway.......back to the important stuff.
Haddock & Chips washed down with Proper Job.
Happy days.

View attachment 571100

View attachment 571101

I had the same, but without the box

 

[welsh dragon]

I had the same, but without the box

I don't think there are many calories in the box anyway

 

[Dirk]

I don't think there are many calories in the box anyway

Roughage.

 

[Mo1959]

I don't think there are many calories in the box anyway

Probably about the same as the hole in a Polo.

 

[monkers]

Hi @monkers.

I don't know, since you don't say, which particular bit of "banter" may have upset you.

I fear that I may have been instrumental in some of it, by ribbing @Mo1959 about her use of the terms "girls" to refer to grown women. If I have upset you, then, I am very upset at having done so, it was most definitely, NOT my intention.

Your description of your personal lifestyle comes as no big surprise, to me, but, is not relevant to anything I may have posted.

Hope you stay with us

Thank you Boldon Lad. I've made a number of similar replies, so please forgive me for keeping this short.

There is no particular post that has caused offence, just a real rather than imagined number of posts in which there has been casual bigotry, often for amusement. None of the posts are nasty or made by nasty people; just that they serve as constant reminder of the kind of bigotry available everywhere else.

Many times people say or write things that a bit inappropriate even when trying hard to be supportive. When this happens, folk are not picked up on their language, because the spirit of what they intend is accepted.

Without intending it, you kinda accidentally did so yourself above. You see, being gay like me (or trans) is not a 'lifestlye choice', it's just trying to either live as the person you are, or wishing to be as free to love the person you happen to love as anyone else is.

Sorry to use you as an example, it's not exclusive to you, most people do it most of the time without realising. Maybe I just see the 'I identify' jokes as a step too far.

There's no such thing as normal as the Jagged Principle proves.

 

[BoldonLad]

Roughage.

Don't mention roughage.

Yesterday, Mrs @BoldonLad bought a rather nice pack of grapes from M&S Food Store.

I have to admit, I could not resist eating them.

Later in the day, we went out for our daily walk, had to almost run the last few hundred yards. Those grapes work!

OK, too much information, I know