The non-Brompton thread

[Drago]

Drago, what are you riding ? Available in USA ? ID9 ? The current folders have a few flaws that are starting to irritate, and I don't need the micro-fold except maybe to fly with, but I don't do that these days.

This my friend...

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/folding-bikes/carrera-intercity-disc-9-speed-folding-bike-536878.html

I don't believe the model will be available in the States, although its possible it may be sold under another brand name.

 

[Drago]

As an aside, since the topic has been raised, here is a list of carry-on luggage sizes accepted by the major airlines. The Brompton, largest folded dimension 58.5cm, exceeds nearly all of them now so in most cases would not be accepted as hand luggage...

https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/airlines/carry-on-luggage-size-chart/

It's seems as older aircraft leave service, the 747, 757, etc, the overhead lockers and cabin storage opportunities have, like chocolate bars, shrunk, so into a suitcase the Brompton goes.

Tape measure shows my folder would also fit in either of my larger suitcases, so could easily travel by air as passenger hold luggage rather than general cargo like a full size bike would. The cheapest suitcase I can find only which would take it is £59, so if I were on a tour I could just discard the case as I leave the airport, but we're well into the realm of 20p scenarios there.

This idea that a Brompton is the only bike that fits on trains, the underground, taxis, coaches, private cars, Submarines, Ernst Stravro Blofeld's escape capsule or is the only one suitable for air travel is utter bunk. Don't fall for it.

In fact, next time I'm down in Kent I'll take mine across the channel in my Dad's TB20 Trinidad just to prove the point.

 

[Drago]

Sorry, back to topic.

Folders well on my mind this morning. Are any of you lot lucky enough to have a Tern Verge P10?

 

[berlinonaut]

As an aside, since the topic has been raised, here is a list of carry-on luggage sizes accepted by the major airlines. The Brompton, largest folded dimension 58.5cm, exceeds nearly all of them now so in most cases would not be accepted as hand luggage...

Nobody talked about hand luggage. Luggage dimensions are limited to a max. of 158cm with almost all airlines. The measurement is as follows:

The sum of this three dimensions must not be over 158cm, else it is not standard luggage but special luggage which is more expensive and more of a hassle to deal with while booking as well as on the airport. Apart from the Brompton almost no folding bike will fit into these luggage dimensions w/o massive dismanteling (and even the Brompton is a very close fit to the max size). Bike Fridays are designed to fit into a normal suitcase that can be converted to a trailer; however, the Bike Fridays need to be dismanteled to fit into a suitcase.
Some other folders can be dismanteled to fit into a suitcase though this is no offically promoted or supported thing by their makers. For Dahon and Tern exists a suitcase called "Airporter" which is vastly over the normal luggage dimensions with consequences for handling fees and hassle.

This idea that a Brompton is the only bike that fits on trains, the underground, taxis, coaches, private cars, Submarines, Ernst Stravro Blofeld's escape capsule or is the only one suitable for air travel is utter bunk. Don't fall for it.

As you were talking about fanboism earlier: It seems that you became a bit of a fanboi of your Halfords folder, kind of aggressively marketing it's advantages and as aggressively dissing every other folder, especially the Brompton, not matter if justified or not...

 

[Kell]

I was intrigued as to the max weight limits of the Halfords bike and found this on their website on THIS Page.

Adult bike Maximum weight limit​

Unless otherwise stated, adult bicycles are designed to carry a rider of up to 120 Kg (18st 12lbs) and up to 20 Kg of luggage. All luggage carried must be securely mounted on the frame, uniformly distributed and fitted as low as possible, to minimize any adverse effect upon stability. The maximum total weight of the cycle, rider and luggage should never exceed 160 Kg. Unless otherwise stated, folding bikes are designed to carry a rider of up to 85kg (13st 5lbs) and up to 15Kg of luggage.

I couldn't see anything on the Intercity DIsc 9 page itself - so wondering where you got hold of any info that says it's got a better max weight capacity than the Brompton. Is it in the booklet that came with it? Or did you get confirmation when you bought it?

 

[BoldonLad]

"Need" is a very relative thing. A folder is very useful to me and eases up my life. One folder. But I do own slightly more than one.

Indeed, the difference between "need" and "want" (or "desire" or "covert"), is considerable

 

[Gwylan]

As an aside, since the topic has been raised, here is a list of carry-on luggage sizes accepted by the major airlines. The Brompton, largest folded dimension 58.5cm, exceeds nearly all of them now so in most cases would not be accepted as hand luggage...

https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/airlines/carry-on-luggage-size-chart/

It's seems as older aircraft leave service, the 747, 757, etc, the overhead lockers and cabin storage opportunities have, like chocolate bars, shrunk, so into a suitcase the Brompton goes.

Tape measure shows my folder would also fit in either of my larger suitcases, so could easily travel by air as passenger hold luggage rather than general cargo like a full size bike would. The cheapest suitcase I can find only which would take it is £59, so if I were on a tour I could just discard the case as I leave the airport, but we're well into the realm of 20p scenarios there.

This idea that a Brompton is the only bike that fits on trains, the underground, taxis, coaches, private cars, Submarines, Ernst Stravro Blofeld's escape capsule or is the only one suitable for air travel is utter bunk. Don't fall for it.

In fact, next time I'm down in Kent I'll take mine across the channel in my Dad's TB20 Trinidad just to prove the point.

What about that funny German folding bike that appeared on the scene recently?

 

[Andy in Germany]

They do but they do supply spare parts w/o a problem and you do barely need any and even less of the special parts. Tern and Dahon do have special parts as well: slim front hubs, proprietary derailleurs, folding hinges etc.. If something with the hinges goes wonky you can usually throw the bike away as there are no parts available and no oversized bolts for the hinge anyway.

Agreed. However, I habitually try an keep things as simple as I can, which is why I'm still using V-brakes and bottom bar shifters on other bikes...

You can get a Brompton with a rear rack from factory,

Does that mean ordering directly, or can I do that through a dealer?

...the front luggage is one of the best inventions since sliced bread...

But it means getting different luggage instead of my current bags, so again, more expense, non standard parts et c. I'm not saying that's bad, just trying to avoid it.

an no, it does not sit in front of a fitted headlight. This would be silly.

It would, but you'd be amazed how many expensive bikes I see that are astonishingly badly designed, especially with things like lights that aren't "essential" in places like the UK. I had a right song and dance fitting lights and mudguards on my mid-range Raleigh, for example; so I tend to assume the worst.

You can get the Brompton with dynamo hub lights from factory or you can retrofit the SON hubdynamo. So yes, they are available with hub dynamo. For 20 years already. Why on earth should this not be possible=

Again, does that mean ordering directly from the UK with all the cost of customs, or can I work through the local dealer?

This is also an example of the non-standard parts; a SON Dynamo costs about 200 GBP and then I have to build a wheel around it. If I bought a tern I can take a 20" wheel from the bike store at work with a Shimano hub dynamo (cost 10€) and drop it in.

I'm open to the idea this may not be the ideal solution (I'm also aware that not everyone has lots of wheels hanging about ready for use); this is part of the process of deciding if the extra cost and work for a Brompton is worth it.

I'm not likely to fly often, so the extra cost of the Brompton may not pay off, as local trains could take a Tern fairly easily.

There's another factor too: I want to take a bike to Japan one day, and I'd like it to be my touring bike so I can really explore the mountains by Beautiful Wife's house. If I spend 2000€ and more on a Brompton, I then have to explain why I'm leaving it at home and paying more to take the tourer to Japan...

 

[Drago]

I was intrigued as to the max weight limits of the Halfords bike and found this on their website on THIS Page.



I couldn't see anything on the Intercity DIsc 9 page itself - so wondering where you got hold of any info that says it's got a better max weight capacity than the Brompton. Is it in the booklet that came with it? Or did you get confirmation when you bought it?

This arose for me. The ID9 having no stated weight limit left me head scratching, so I emailed Hellfrauds media enquiries department and asked the question.

Just as I thought they'd ignored me and I wasn't going to receive a reply I got an email from their Help and Advice people (who I should have contacted in the first instance, but was not aware of their existence) which stated the bike would be suitable for me at my 126 kg weight, albeit they did not state what the max capacity would be. Printed and saved, so if it breaks I've got them by the warranty balls.

Certainly in use the frame is rigid and stiff, a very tight platform. Contrast that to the Brompton which flaps and flops like a cross trainer with my 1/8th of a tonne on board, although theyre just fine for normal mortals (we call them "normies").

 

[berlinonaut]

Does that mean ordering directly, or can I do that through a dealer?

What do you think local dealers are good for? Brompton sells through local dealers in Germany since the early 90ies of last century. That's why they exist. You can get any bike in any configuration from the local dealer. Either from what they have in the shop or as a standard configuration from Brompton or as a bespoke built from Brompton or, depending from the dealer, individualized by the dealer with 3rd party components.

But it means getting different luggage instead of my current bags, so again, more expense, non standard parts et c. I'm not saying that's bad, just trying to avoid it.

Yeah, but that's a bit silly, sorry to say this. You want a folder which is a bike that differs from other bikes, i.e. in terms of the height of the luggage rack. Thus with most folders (including 20") existing bags like i.e. the big ortliebs do not fit or not fit perfectly (heelstrike, too close to the ground etc.). In opposite to almost any other folding bike company Brompton has developed a solution for this issue in form of their front luggage - other companies leave you alone here. You don't like the idea. Fine, you don't have to use it. You will miss out huge advantages, but so be it. With any folder you enter new territory in comparison to a "normal bike". Size of tires and tubes etc. is different. Would you complain that you need a tube of a different size with a different bike?
The Brompton is not a bike, it is an ecosystem and this is for a reason. It has evolved over more than 40 years - longer than any other competitor. This is an advantage that you may value or not.

Again, does that mean ordering directly from the UK with all the cost of customs, or can I work through the local dealer?

Again: What do you think a local dealer is good for if you had to order bikes and parts from the UK? Possibly it would not be the worst idea to get at least a minimal amount of information by either visiting one of your three local dealer or at least visting the Brompton homepage...

This is also an example of the non-standard parts; a SON Dynamo costs about 200 GBP and then I have to build a wheel around it If I bought a tern I can take a 20" wheel from the bike store at work with a Shimano hub dynamo (cost 10€) and drop it in.

I do have my doubts as most Terns do have 74mm old in the front while normal wheels have 100mm old (including most standard 20" wheels).
Don't know where you get a Shimano dynamo hub including a front wheel for 10€ if it is not stolen. The only Shimano dynamo hub in 74mm OLD available is the one from their Capreo line. This used to be the cheaper of the two dynamo hub options from factroy on the Brompton from 2010 on. Unfortunately it was heavy and draggy. And, bought as a seperate part on the free market to build your own wheel it was about 70€. Today Brompton uses a Shutter Precision 8 series dynamo as standard which you can also use on a tern. In 74mm you have the choice between Shimano (possibly no longer available), Shutter Precision (a bunch of different models) and SON. Brompton, Tern, Dahon and many other folding bikes are all using 74mm forks to achieve a smaller folded package. There are also folders with 100mm forks.
74mm dynamos are by far not a "non standard part".

I'm not likely to fly often, so the extra cost of the Brompton may not pay off, as local trains could take a Tern fairly easily.

Nothing beats practice. Give it a go and try it out. Surely it works with a Tern and other folders, especially in local trains. In my opinion less comfy than with a Brompton, but your mileage may vary. With my advice I oriented on you initial request and this was:

"frequent travelling, long distance trains and flights, internationally" - if it turns out this is no longer true this has obviously effects on the advice. Surprise.

There's another factor too: I want to take a bike to Japan one day, and I'd like it to be my touring bike so I can really explore the mountains by Beautiful Wife's house. If I spend 2000€ and more on a Brompton, I then have to explain why I'm leaving it at home and paying more to take the tourer to Japan...

Why would you leave it at home then? The whole idea and advantage of a Brompton is to take it with you.

 

[berlinonaut]

I'm not likely to fly often, so the extra cost of the Brompton may not pay off, as local trains could take a Tern fairly easily.

BTW: As you are in Freiburg and are now talking about local trains: There is no need for a folder then. Taking a bike with you on the train is free in Baden Württemberg most of the time in local trains:

https://www.radfahren-bw.de/service/anreise/fahrradmitnahme-im-nahverkehr/

https://www.bwegt.de/fileadmin/asse...inweise_Fahrradmitnahme_2022_barrierefrei.pdf

 

[Dadam]

Well the question on my mind now is if I can get both the ID9 and the inflatable kayak I bought to mess about on the lakes, into our folding roof box at the same time. I reckon it's 50/50 at the moment

 

[Drago]

A nice dropstitch kayak is good fun.

 

[berlinonaut]

Well the question on my mind now is if I can get both the ID9 and the inflatable kayak I bought to mess about on the lakes, into our folding roof box at the same time. I reckon it's 50/50 at the moment

The better way is to transport the kayak with the bike and than the bike with the kayak. If you bring in a car additionally you need a very huge kayak and a very low geared bike to transport it....

 

[brommieinkorea]

In this casein the US I'd have a look at the current incarnation of the Swift: https://www.origamibicycles.com/shop/p/origami-swift

Yes, I've eyed the Swift. But So far, Montague is looking like the winner as handling will probably be better, and even the tires are standard 700s.