biggs682
Itching to get back on my bike's
- Location
- Northamptonshire
Bargain if it's any good
The non-Brompton thread
- Thread starter Drago
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Bargain if it's any good
OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
The frame certainly looks decent, the hinge and clamp mahooosive, the the bars/stem solid.
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OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Budget? Will have a big impact.
How big/strong are you? Some of the less expensive folders aren't so compact so need a little more diligence on the train (I've never had a problem but im sized snd built like Sasquatch), although you have to get seriously spendy to find a Brompton much lighter, and even then only by a kilo and a bit at best.
How far are you planning to ride it? Some the less expensive ones are well up to a mile of two at each end of a rail journey, but much more than that the likes of the better Terns or the ID9 are better riding machines. Hell, people go touring on Bromptons, but there's no escaping the reality that the better Terns and ID9 are in a different league for actual riding so why flagelate yourself unnecessarily?
Gwylan
Veteran
- Location
- All at sea⛵
Thank you.
Medium, 1m 75+ ish. 85kg, should be 75, I know. Could lose 5kg that would be cheaper than cost of same result in bike weight.
I am bike fit, touring, commuting not racing. Did lots of 160+ km day rides in the past. Day trips, 50 - 60 km
Say £1500, the result is more important than the label.
Think Brompton are the Waitrose of bicycles. Value but at a price. Also I don't work for the BBC or have access to the cycle to work scheme.
Kell
Veteran
- Location
- High Wycombe/London
It's all horses for courses. I'm getting from this that Drago is not a Brompton fan. And that's fine.
I wasn't until I got one.
I thought they looked old fashioned and were probably slow. When I was looking (back in 2008) all the ones I saw had the old silver levers and were almost all British Racing Green, or that dull red or the dull blue. Or black.
I also didn't want a 'small-wheeled' bike.
So I went through three 26" folders. All alumimium frames.
Ride was more comfortable, but realistically no faster (at least not according to my Strava logs). It's less about rolling resistance and more about aero - and most folders will put you in a fairly upright position.
My biggest issue was that both of my Dahons snapped. One I bought new myself on the C2Work scheme. Once that snapped I bought the second one from a friend (who'd bought it on the C2Work scheme and ridden it less than 100 miles). The first one I had was run over so that wasn't the fault of the bike. When it comes to price that Dahon I bought was only £100 cheaper than the Brompton I ended up getting. So it's not like it was a 'cheap' bike.
I'll add as an addendum to the above, that I found out I was over the recommended weight limit for these bikes. Which was 95kg. Given that I bought one of them brand new, this should have been pointed out to me. I know it would be a tricky subject to broach - especially as I was borderline when I bought it. But it would have been less tricky than trying to claim against the 5-year frame warranty when Evans had stopped selling the brand and no-one was importing them to the UK at that time. In the end, the bike went to the tip so its residual value was £0. the only think I kept were the grips - some sort of Ergon clone.
My Brompton is far from perfect. There are lots of things that annoy me about it. But it's way better (for me) than any of my previous folders. If you're only looking at the purchase price, you're not looking at the full picture. Especially if you want something to travel with.
If you're only coming here sporadically (and depending on where you are) can you not opt in to a cycle hire scheme?
I wasn't until I got one.
I thought they looked old fashioned and were probably slow. When I was looking (back in 2008) all the ones I saw had the old silver levers and were almost all British Racing Green, or that dull red or the dull blue. Or black.
I also didn't want a 'small-wheeled' bike.
So I went through three 26" folders. All alumimium frames.
Ride was more comfortable, but realistically no faster (at least not according to my Strava logs). It's less about rolling resistance and more about aero - and most folders will put you in a fairly upright position.
My biggest issue was that both of my Dahons snapped. One I bought new myself on the C2Work scheme. Once that snapped I bought the second one from a friend (who'd bought it on the C2Work scheme and ridden it less than 100 miles). The first one I had was run over so that wasn't the fault of the bike. When it comes to price that Dahon I bought was only £100 cheaper than the Brompton I ended up getting. So it's not like it was a 'cheap' bike.
I'll add as an addendum to the above, that I found out I was over the recommended weight limit for these bikes. Which was 95kg. Given that I bought one of them brand new, this should have been pointed out to me. I know it would be a tricky subject to broach - especially as I was borderline when I bought it. But it would have been less tricky than trying to claim against the 5-year frame warranty when Evans had stopped selling the brand and no-one was importing them to the UK at that time. In the end, the bike went to the tip so its residual value was £0. the only think I kept were the grips - some sort of Ergon clone.
My Brompton is far from perfect. There are lots of things that annoy me about it. But it's way better (for me) than any of my previous folders. If you're only looking at the purchase price, you're not looking at the full picture. Especially if you want something to travel with.
If you're only coming here sporadically (and depending on where you are) can you not opt in to a cycle hire scheme?
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OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
I love Bromptons!
Alas, as I have stated many times before, they're not good for the larger/heavier rider. They flex so badly under my 126kg (which they're not rated for anyway) that it's like riding a cross trainer and not a bicycle.
And leaving that aside the better quality offerings from rivals simply ride better. Faster, smoother, better handling, often with disc brakes (hydro discs on mine.)
But then the rivals don't have that wonderful Brompton fold.
I even looked at the 20" Brompton conversions some companies are doing. However, while they address some aspects of my concerns over the ride (and can be had with discs!) they don't make the frame any stiffer as a platform or increase the load capacity and the prices start to get a bit daft.
On the rather hand, I've dragged my folder on the train as far sarf as Kent as far north as Edinburgh over the last year and the less compact fold has never been an issue, I can still carry it just fine, never failed to be able to stash it appropriately on a train.
So I do like Bromptons, but I'm not blind to the flaws, and even if I were they're unsuitable for a rider of my size and weight, hence me starting a non-Brompton thread. Even then I have come that close to putting common sense to one side and pulling the trigger on one, and its only fear of a broken frame and a rejected warranty claim when they see my size that has stopped me, so there you go. Having been there yourself with the Dahon frame you can surely understand my reluctance to drop big dollar on a bike I might well break.
I'm also a fan of them as a British industry success story. All power to them.
There is a thread for Brompton users, and while I read it and keep current I rarely post as I don't want to drag that thread into a Brompton v the others discussion/argument/knife fight, and would ask folk to extend the same courtesy here.
Similar to you Kell I'm not a Dahon fan either, although one must recognise their contribution to the field of folding bike design.
Alas, as I have stated many times before, they're not good for the larger/heavier rider. They flex so badly under my 126kg (which they're not rated for anyway) that it's like riding a cross trainer and not a bicycle.
And leaving that aside the better quality offerings from rivals simply ride better. Faster, smoother, better handling, often with disc brakes (hydro discs on mine.)
But then the rivals don't have that wonderful Brompton fold.
I even looked at the 20" Brompton conversions some companies are doing. However, while they address some aspects of my concerns over the ride (and can be had with discs!) they don't make the frame any stiffer as a platform or increase the load capacity and the prices start to get a bit daft.
On the rather hand, I've dragged my folder on the train as far sarf as Kent as far north as Edinburgh over the last year and the less compact fold has never been an issue, I can still carry it just fine, never failed to be able to stash it appropriately on a train.
So I do like Bromptons, but I'm not blind to the flaws, and even if I were they're unsuitable for a rider of my size and weight, hence me starting a non-Brompton thread. Even then I have come that close to putting common sense to one side and pulling the trigger on one, and its only fear of a broken frame and a rejected warranty claim when they see my size that has stopped me, so there you go. Having been there yourself with the Dahon frame you can surely understand my reluctance to drop big dollar on a bike I might well break.
I'm also a fan of them as a British industry success story. All power to them.
There is a thread for Brompton users, and while I read it and keep current I rarely post as I don't want to drag that thread into a Brompton v the others discussion/argument/knife fight, and would ask folk to extend the same courtesy here.
Similar to you Kell I'm not a Dahon fan either, although one must recognise their contribution to the field of folding bike design.
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Kell
Veteran
- Location
- High Wycombe/London
After the debacle with my Dahon, I asked and was told when I bought my Brompton that they're rated to 130kg. And that's not because of the frame, it was because of the stopping power of the brakes.
I think I've read on here since that the current recommendation is less than that. I don't know if I was deliberately lied to or was just simply given bad information or something has happened to make Brompton revise their recommendation.
But I'd be surprised if the cheapo folders compete - especially if they're aluminium.
But I agree with the brakes - in the wet I've found even the newer versions a little wanting. I find it staggering they're not offering the opportunity for discs. every time there's one of those user surveys, that's the one thing I recommend.
Obviously I've not tried every iteration of every folder, but I've seen most of them on my commutes over the years. All of my others were single fold 26" wheel versions. MOST of the time these were not a problem, but I had to miss several trains because there was not room to board with me plus the bike. Situations like this are almost non-existent with the Brompton.
The end result is that I've not seen any other folder that makes me think I wish I'd got that instead. Some, like the Birdy, might have been equally suitable, but as I say, it's horses for courses.
I didn't want to like my Brompton. Turns out it's probably the bike I like the most. Bit like when the Dad in a family becomes a reluctant pet owner and ends up being the one person in the house that LOVES the dog.
I think I've read on here since that the current recommendation is less than that. I don't know if I was deliberately lied to or was just simply given bad information or something has happened to make Brompton revise their recommendation.
But I'd be surprised if the cheapo folders compete - especially if they're aluminium.
But I agree with the brakes - in the wet I've found even the newer versions a little wanting. I find it staggering they're not offering the opportunity for discs. every time there's one of those user surveys, that's the one thing I recommend.
Obviously I've not tried every iteration of every folder, but I've seen most of them on my commutes over the years. All of my others were single fold 26" wheel versions. MOST of the time these were not a problem, but I had to miss several trains because there was not room to board with me plus the bike. Situations like this are almost non-existent with the Brompton.
The end result is that I've not seen any other folder that makes me think I wish I'd got that instead. Some, like the Birdy, might have been equally suitable, but as I say, it's horses for courses.
I didn't want to like my Brompton. Turns out it's probably the bike I like the most. Bit like when the Dad in a family becomes a reluctant pet owner and ends up being the one person in the house that LOVES the dog.
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Thanks... but I already bought one!
Was chatting to Halfords staff (in the Guiseley branch, really nice blokes) and they said they'd order me one in and build it for me to try, no deposit, no obligation. So they did and it seemed fine, and so I bit.
Just measured mine and it seems about the same. Riding back from the pub on Saturday I did feel like my legs could do with a smidge more extension but I'm not likely to be doing centuries on this.
I do have it at full extension (I think). The marks are like this ||||||| and I put the tops of the marks level with the top of the seat tube.
OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
No indeed, some really cheapo folders can do a decent enough job but as a general rule are pretty torrid.
The one-step-up-from-bargan-basement level has a raft of usable bikes, albeit most are compromised in some department although a couple are genuine eye openers.
And then you'll get the more expensive offerings from all sorts of manufacturers, most of which are decent and some of which are excellent. The range is vast house what suits your wants or needs.
But I'd happily put my hydroformed alloy, Sora equipped, hydro stoppered ID9 up against any Brompton and and I'm confident it would ace them in all but that damned awesome fold (and ease of lugging about while folded if you're a bit petit.)
It is what it is, and Road.cc seem to agree with me as its the only folder to be rated 9/10 by them. The next closest is one of the high end Bromptons at over twice the price, but everyone knows second js merely first kf the losers.
Until Brompton starts to cater for the husky gent I can at least console myself with something that performs as a bicycle in a league above any Bormpton at any price even if the origami bit isn't as slick And revel in the knowledge that road.cc agree with me.
Edit - just checked the £2500 miririder now scores 9/10 as well, but thats a ebike. And very nice it looks too...
The one-step-up-from-bargan-basement level has a raft of usable bikes, albeit most are compromised in some department although a couple are genuine eye openers.
And then you'll get the more expensive offerings from all sorts of manufacturers, most of which are decent and some of which are excellent. The range is vast house what suits your wants or needs.
But I'd happily put my hydroformed alloy, Sora equipped, hydro stoppered ID9 up against any Brompton and and I'm confident it would ace them in all but that damned awesome fold (and ease of lugging about while folded if you're a bit petit.)
It is what it is, and Road.cc seem to agree with me as its the only folder to be rated 9/10 by them. The next closest is one of the high end Bromptons at over twice the price, but everyone knows second js merely first kf the losers.
Until Brompton starts to cater for the husky gent I can at least console myself with something that performs as a bicycle in a league above any Bormpton at any price even if the origami bit isn't as slick And revel in the knowledge that road.cc agree with me.
Edit - just checked the £2500 miririder now scores 9/10 as well, but thats a ebike. And very nice it looks too...
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OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Thanks... but I already bought one!
Was chatting to Halfords staff (in the Guiseley branch, really nice blokes) and they said they'd order me one in and build it for me to try, no deposit, no obligation. So they did and it seemed fine, and so I bit.
Just measured mine and it seems about the same. Riding back from the pub on Saturday I did feel like my legs could do with a smidge more extension but I'm not likely to be doing centuries on this.
I do have it at full extension (I think). The marks are like this ||||||| and I put the tops of the marks level with the top of the seat tube.
I have the max mark just out of view. My arse must be a bit more padded and holding me higher off the seat than yours.
How you getting on with it? Mine has been all over with me and has become my favourite bike. If the missus put her foot down and made me bin off all but one bike it'd be the ID9 I'd keep.
The only thing I changed is the pedals. With my weight staying on them they feel like they're flexing downwards slightly (Brompton pedals feel to same too before their fans start cackling) so I fitted some Chines clones of the MKS quick release pedals. Surprisingly good quality too.
berlinonaut
Veteran
- Location
- Berlin Germany
Given the prerequistes
I'd say what counts is:
Which changes quickly if you think about flying with the bike. The Brompton is one of the few bikes that you can take on a flight w/o special charges but as ordinary luggage. Depending from how often you fly it will pay for itself. Also I've quite often been in trains where anything but a Brompton would either have been impossible, a security risc, massively uncomfortable or at least very impolite. I've been using public transport and long distance trains will all kind of folders (including a folding trike) and anything apart from the Brompton is a bad idea if you do that regularly.
Freiburg seems to have three Brompton dealers, so this should be a given.
I'd say what counts is:
Which changes quickly if you think about flying with the bike. The Brompton is one of the few bikes that you can take on a flight w/o special charges but as ordinary luggage. Depending from how often you fly it will pay for itself. Also I've quite often been in trains where anything but a Brompton would either have been impossible, a security risc, massively uncomfortable or at least very impolite. I've been using public transport and long distance trains will all kind of folders (including a folding trike) and anything apart from the Brompton is a bad idea if you do that regularly.
Freiburg seems to have three Brompton dealers, so this should be a given.
Trying to get spare parts for a Dahon at all is a quest, getting spare parts for Dahon and Tern locally, reliably and comprehensively is in my eyes close to impossible. And it does not get better with most other folders.
With regards to flying possibly a Bike Friday Packit. Personally I don't like the way it folds but it is one of the few that you can take on a flight with you. However: In Europe prices are steep.
Very. Would not want to miss it. Fire and forget, never look back.
Clearly would second that. Taking a bike with you on a non-bike-trip can be pretty annoying. From travel over taxis to hotels or business sites. A big bike is always a lump to carry around, you have no place to store it and it is simply annoying. A Brompton minimizes this and opens the opprtunities of having a bike with you w/o most of the annoyances.
OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Yet for all that road.cc dont rate a single Brompton model as highly as they do my own humble steed. Strange that.
As aforementioned just a post or two ago, my more conventional folder is not problem at all to lug around and I have yet to find a train, coach or car boot where it could not be stashed with ease. Bromptons are lovely to lug about on those wheels - and I'm a massive admirer of 'the fold' - but the idea that anything else is a pain or even impossible to carry or stash away is laughable. Yet again, I've spent this last year getting g fery well acquainted with the railway network and not found a single train, over or underground, where my more conventional folder could not be stashed. The luggage racks, undersest spaces, folding seats, and even overhead racks on some trains, are all sized perfectly adequately - it either fits, or it does not, there is no Brompton only storage option on any UK train. Hell, I did one journey sat in seat with the bike on the floor behind my feet, something I've been told only a Brompton can do.
And once the train is at the station I unfold the bike - that's where the Brompton really scores - and then I'm off, zapping off with speed, agility ride quality and stopping power a Brompton pilot can only dream of.
But as for Bromptons, once again I must reiterate that I do like them but they are unsuitable for me. I'm not sure why people struggle with that - they could bring world peace and cure cancer and I'd still be nudging 20kg beyond the weight limit in normal clothes. I'm not spaffing a couple of grand on a bike only to risk a frame breakage and have a warranty claim dismissed.
So if you worship at the Brompton altar then go over to the Brompton thread. I created this thread to give those that prefer the alternatives their own space to discuss them, and thus prevent this sort of fanboi arguing left and right. I've been polite and not dragged the Brompton thread OT, and all I ask is a little quid pro quo on the non-Brompton thread.
As aforementioned just a post or two ago, my more conventional folder is not problem at all to lug around and I have yet to find a train, coach or car boot where it could not be stashed with ease. Bromptons are lovely to lug about on those wheels - and I'm a massive admirer of 'the fold' - but the idea that anything else is a pain or even impossible to carry or stash away is laughable. Yet again, I've spent this last year getting g fery well acquainted with the railway network and not found a single train, over or underground, where my more conventional folder could not be stashed. The luggage racks, undersest spaces, folding seats, and even overhead racks on some trains, are all sized perfectly adequately - it either fits, or it does not, there is no Brompton only storage option on any UK train. Hell, I did one journey sat in seat with the bike on the floor behind my feet, something I've been told only a Brompton can do.
And once the train is at the station I unfold the bike - that's where the Brompton really scores - and then I'm off, zapping off with speed, agility ride quality and stopping power a Brompton pilot can only dream of.
But as for Bromptons, once again I must reiterate that I do like them but they are unsuitable for me. I'm not sure why people struggle with that - they could bring world peace and cure cancer and I'd still be nudging 20kg beyond the weight limit in normal clothes. I'm not spaffing a couple of grand on a bike only to risk a frame breakage and have a warranty claim dismissed.
So if you worship at the Brompton altar then go over to the Brompton thread. I created this thread to give those that prefer the alternatives their own space to discuss them, and thus prevent this sort of fanboi arguing left and right. I've been polite and not dragged the Brompton thread OT, and all I ask is a little quid pro quo on the non-Brompton thread.
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The bike is great, it’s a hoot to ride. Never ridden a folder before so the twitchier steering and overall shortness took a bit of getting used to but not too much. Only done about 10 miles on it so far.
It has the exact model of hydraulic disc brakes on my Giant hybrid, which is good as they’ve been totally reliable over 4 years.
berlinonaut
Veteran
- Location
- Berlin Germany
Nothing strange about that. Road.cc is a bike site that is mostly mamil territory, not much expertise in folders and even less with folders in daily life. Which you can clearly see from their tests and the content of the site.
Have you taken the bike on a business trip, consisting of train journeys in various countries in vastly different trains (including changing trains and platforms during the journey) flights, taxis, hotels, restaurants, business sites that you are not familiar with? Taking luggage with you in various amounts from two day to two week trips plus sometimes massive amount of stuff needed for work (plus obviously business compatible clothing)? If not your judgement is based on incomplete data.
Sorry, this is no fanboism. For the request of @Andy in Germany it is simply the best tool for his requirements and he asked for opinions. If you prefer bad advice to keep your thread clean sounds a bit silly.
So you think the Brompton would not be on topic in this thread (which I agree with) and thus should not be discussed ask the moderators to remove all postings with relation to or mentioning of Bromptons to be removed or moved to a different thread. For a buying advice question this would be more appropriate anyway.
OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
No, you make a fair point Mr B. Leave it in.
Never done a business trip with mine, but been in taxis with it. No problems. I've had no trouble toting it anywhere I needed to go on trains, coaches, cars and taxis into shops (where I've dared), offices, a library, a shopping centre, the opticians, my GP surgery and even a school.
As I say, a lot of the objections are exaggerated at best or fictitious at worst. It's still a folder, still puts it's metaphorical trousers on one leg at time. Weight is very competitive and the size difference is inches not feet - 5'4" disabled Mrs D has no problem lugging about on my behalf either.
And road.cc appear not to have had any problems either prior to awarding it the highest marks for any non ebike folder they ever tested. In fact, very few of the folders they have tested appear to have caused them any of the problems that Brompton owners often claim every folder besides a Brompton suffers with.
Indeed, last time time I went down to Euston an older lady took an interest in my bike and was asking all sorts of questions- she wasn't a cyclist, was interested in where i've been on it, how much it cost, that sort of thing - much to the chagrin of the chap with the Bromtpon on the folding seat next to me. In fact, my bike was nestling between my knees in much the same way his was.
To use a probably hopeless simile, we're talking a difference akin to that between an original Mini and, say, a Peugeot 107 and not a Mini and a Land Cruiser. Anything the old Mini could do the 107 can do, and in most cases usually better.
Never done a business trip with mine, but been in taxis with it. No problems. I've had no trouble toting it anywhere I needed to go on trains, coaches, cars and taxis into shops (where I've dared), offices, a library, a shopping centre, the opticians, my GP surgery and even a school.
As I say, a lot of the objections are exaggerated at best or fictitious at worst. It's still a folder, still puts it's metaphorical trousers on one leg at time. Weight is very competitive and the size difference is inches not feet - 5'4" disabled Mrs D has no problem lugging about on my behalf either.
And road.cc appear not to have had any problems either prior to awarding it the highest marks for any non ebike folder they ever tested. In fact, very few of the folders they have tested appear to have caused them any of the problems that Brompton owners often claim every folder besides a Brompton suffers with.
Indeed, last time time I went down to Euston an older lady took an interest in my bike and was asking all sorts of questions- she wasn't a cyclist, was interested in where i've been on it, how much it cost, that sort of thing - much to the chagrin of the chap with the Bromtpon on the folding seat next to me. In fact, my bike was nestling between my knees in much the same way his was.
To use a probably hopeless simile, we're talking a difference akin to that between an original Mini and, say, a Peugeot 107 and not a Mini and a Land Cruiser. Anything the old Mini could do the 107 can do, and in most cases usually better.
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