The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

[Buddfox]

I have now read the whole 202 pages of the USADA's reasoned decision and all of the English language avadavits in the appendix.

Some of the things that struck me which have not been commented on (or at least I haven't seen any comment on)...

-USADA got no evidence from FBI investigation, despite requesting it. That's odd no? Political pressure being applied?
-Kevin Livingston refused to testify. Why would that be? Let's see who his current employer is....
-Chris Carmichael seems to get off pretty much scot-free.
-The long held suspicion that Lance asked Trek to sever their ties with Greg Lemond looks to be confirmed.
-Axel Merckx was said to be working with Ferrari by Frankie Andreu. I thought Eddy had been a bit reticent with his ridiculous Lance defence.

On a couple of those points, as far as I understand it - since the FBI evidence was gathered in the context of a criminal trial, it couldn't be shared. i.e. it was gathered under sub poena, but for the USADA purposes they wouldn't have had the same ability to sub poena witnesses. There may be other reasons but I believe that's part of it.

The Chris Carmichael vs Michele Ferrari role is commented on in Hamilton's book. Whilst Carmichael is good at his own PR in relation to his coaching of Armstrong, it appears that he was really a bit part player, and not involved on the PEDs side. Ferrari was in reality LA's coach (and doctor). It has never really seemed that Carmichael had any input on the PED side.

 

[rich p]

Axel was outed years ago IIRC.
I wonder if Kevin L testified to the Grand Jury but refused to re-iterate it for USADA? His rent would have gone through the roof if he'd split on Lance.
I don't have the book at the moment but someone may remember if KL fell out with LA according to Tyler H.

 

[raindog]

-Axel Merckx was said to be working with Ferrari by Frankie Andreu. I thought Eddy had been a bit reticent with his ridiculous Lance defence.

Isn't there some kind of business connection between Eddy, Axel and LA/Trek? Can't remember what though.

 

[Hont]

The Chris Carmichael vs Michele Ferrari role is commented on in Hamilton's book. Whilst Carmichael is good at his own PR in relation to his coaching of Armstrong, it appears that he was really a bit part player

Thanks.

someone may remember if KL fell out with LA

They definitely fell out. I think Lance even mentions it in one of his books, but they obviously made up because Livingston now appears to be working in Lance's bike shop.

 

[ColinJ]

Here's a revealing insight ... (link)

It was the autumn of 1994 and I had joined Lance Armstrong on a training ride on the banks of Lake Como.

We had enjoyed a successful season as colleagues on the Motorola team. I was certainly feeling I’d done pretty well in my first year there. I’d won the British title and just completed my first grand tour at the Giro d’Italia. I’d also won the first European race of the season for Motorola. I’d made a contribution. Proved myself to be a good, solid pro.

But Lance wasn’t happy. He’d won the world road race title the previous year but was getting beaten. There were guys in the peloton he just couldn’t live with and what you have to understand about Lance is that he is a winner. He has to win and he could not handle losing.

That year Evgeni Berzin won the Giro and Marco Pantani emerged on the scene, winning a couple of stages.

So, as we’re riding side by side, the conversation turns to the subject of performance-enhancing drugs. He wants to know what I think. Did I think everyone was on them? Was the only way to beat them to join them? Would I take them?

My dad was a Scottish international cyclist and before I turned pro he sat me down and made me promise that I would never fall into that world, that I would never take drugs.

I told Lance the story and told him I could never let down my dad. I’d rather fail as a cyclist than do that. We rode on.

Two weeks later, I was called to a meeting with Jim Ochowicz, who played a big part in Lance’s career and at the time was Motorola team manager. Jim told me I would not be getting a new contract for the following season. I was out.

I will never know what Lance was getting at that day. Was he seeing if I would be part of his ‘team’ or was I simply one of a number of people he was sounding out?

But I have often wondered if saying yes to drugs on that ride would have made all the difference. Would he have kept me on the team? Would I have had a different career? Would I have been more successful, in terms of results as well as financially? I certainly don’t think it helped me, saying no to Lance that day.

 

[oldroadman]

LA is about the last person I would have wanted to work for or with, in any capacity. Rather have a modest level of financial reward in a small outfit (even if a few members were naughty and thought the less of non-chemical riders), and be able to live with myself than play any sort of games with future health.
I'm still here, and a few of the poor lads are not.

 

[ColinJ]

LA is about the last person I would have wanted to work for or with, in any capacity. Rather have a modest level of financial reward in a small outfit (even if a few members were naughty and thought the less of non-chemical riders), and be able to live with myself than play any sort of games with future health.
I'm still here, and a few of the poor lads are not.

Yes - I think Brian Smith made the right choice!

 

[rich p]

Nothing from the UCI yet - I wonder if Travis Tygart will be wondering aloud to the media about this ridiculous delay.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Nothing from the UCI yet - I wonder if Travis Tygart will be wondering aloud to the media about this ridiculous delay.

They're too busy checking through their files and shredding documents.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Yes - I think Brian Smith made the right choice!

And clearly 'oldroadman' did too...

 

[Noodley]

They're too busy checking through their files and shredding documents.

I wonder if paraffin sales in Aigle will be on the increase as well...

 

[ufkacbln]

What TF are you on about?

1995 - 2005 inclusive.... you did know that didn't you?

What TF were you referring to if not one of these?

 

[ufkacbln]

I thought USADA had said that they'd have been easier on Armstrong if he'd been cooperative?

In any event, it's standard tactics for acting against cartels, both in the US and Europe.

Tygart has openly stated that they would not have gone for all 7 titles if he had co-operated

 

[Red Light]

Tygart has openly stated that they would not have gone for all 7 titles if he had co-operated

And is now lobbying others to penalise him too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19921705

 

[beastie]

And is now lobbying others to penalise him too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19921705

Sorry but there is no mention of Tygart or lobbying in that article. It points out certain aspects of the USADA summary.

On another front- are you a lawyer or such like? I only ask because you seem very keen on the legal ramifications of the whole LA affair.