The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

[ufkacbln]

Acceptance Insurance is a new name to me. I want to read more of it. Were they an SCA underwriter or was this a completely separate policy? If the latter, Tygart's words of 'organised conspiracy' ring even truer perhaps. The whole saga begins to look more about financial scam/sting as it does about doping to win the TdF.

The FRS lawsuit actually makes me smile. False claims in advertising?! Whatever next! That does smack of bandwagon stuff! I can't see it succeeding since because, to be serious for a moment, if one looks at it legally the complainant would have to prove the claims made by the sports drink manufacturer were false.





That Armstrong doped is fact - that he won the TdF because of the dope and NOT the sports drink might be somewhat harder to prove!

.... and the other clever aspect about Armstrong's "it was obvious that USPS was doping" defence is that this at least in part will require the companies to prove that they were neither complicit, uaware, or even suspicious of the doping activities. If evaen a easonable doubt can be placed that they were aware of the team's activities (due diligence?) then the case falls apart

 

[yello]

.If evaen a easonable doubt can be placed that they were aware of the team's activities (due diligence?) then the case falls apart

On what basis do you say that? There were plenty of rumours but does that equate to 'awareness'? For all we know, USPS sought assurances that there was no substance to the rumours... what more could they be expected to do? If the UCI saw no grounds for action then I feel there can be no fault placed with the USPS.

Personally, I don't care whether these actions bankrupt Armstrong or not - it's enough for me that he's been exposed for the cheat and liar that he his. I would like to see consequences for the UCI and action for cycling generally though.

I suspect that if there is any judgement in favour of USPS, it will be against Tailwind primarily and its management team, and not against individual riders within the team, as the sponsorship contract was with Tailwind. Whether Tailwind decide to go after the riders, doctors etc for the money is their call and, I feel, a separate issue. We do know that under those circumstances that Landis won't be short of a few bob!

I agree that it'll run and run though, in one form or another.

 

[ColinJ]

RE Mig: Was he 'special'?...er, yes, a resting heart rate of 28 bpm, huge lung capacity, and so on.

(Before I got seriously unfit and then ill ...) I had a resting heart rate of 33-34 bpm without doing any serious training, and I have a huge lung capacity too, but I definitely could never have won the TdF!

 

[StuAff]

(Before I got seriously unfit and then ill ...) I had a resting heart rate of 33-34 bpm without doing any serious training, and I have a huge lung capacity too, but I definitely could never have won the TdF!

Indeed. Only part of the answer- how much of the rest was pharmaceutical we'll probably never know.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Indeed. Only part of the answer- how much of the rest was pharmaceutical we'll probably never know.

I suspect the amount of effort and training that Big Mig put in compared to Colin might also have just a little bit to do with the differences in outcome. We couldn't all have been contenders if only we had drugs...

 

[StuAff]

I suspect the amount of effort and training that Big Mig put in compared to Colin might also have just a little bit to do with the differences in outcome. We couldn't all have been contenders if only we had drugs...

Undoubtedly. And we couldn't all be contenders if we did the training, purely because some of us couldn't do it, and some of us couldn't benefit to the same extent.

 

[ColinJ]

I suspect the amount of effort and training that Big Mig put in compared to Colin might also have just a little bit to do with the differences in outcome. We couldn't all have been contenders if only we had drugs...

I definitely could never have won the TdF!

About 10 years ago, on a cycling holiday on the Costa Blanca, I was cycling through a small village near Finestrat (where Big Mig had a second home) and was passing a school when one of the young children in the playground spotted me. He ran over to the wire mesh fence and called out to me. Next thing I knew, there were about 20 kids hanging on to the fence and chanting IN-DU-RAIN, IN-DU-RAIN!

I waved at them and shouted "¡Hola!" Much laughter. My accent was obviously a bit of a giveaway ...

 

[BJH]

About 10 years ago, on a cycling holiday on the Costa Blanca, I was cycling through a small village near Finestrat (where Big Mig had a second home) and was passing a school when one of the young children in the playground spotted me. He ran over to the wire mesh fence and called out to me. Next thing I knew, there were about 20 kids hanging on to the fence and chanting IN-DU-RAIN, IN-DU-RAIN!

I waved at them and shouted "¡Hola!" Much laughter. My accent was obviously a bit of a giveaway ...

I got distinctly worried at the start of this post that you were about to say that you roasted him on the road !!!

I did once have someone say Come on Lance to me while out riding, but they were definitely trying to take the pi55 ,!!

 

[ColinJ]

I did once have someone say Come on Lance to me while out riding, but they were definitely trying to take the pi55 ,!!

I was grovelling up a climb once when somebody called out "Come on, Ivan!" which I took to be inspired by the fact that I was riding my Basso!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I was grovelling up a climb once when somebody called out "Come on, Ivan!" which I took to be inspired by the fact that I was riding my Basso!

Or it could just be because you were so Terrible.

 

[ColinJ]

Or it could just be because you were so Terrible.

Ouch!

The heckler had clearly been watching the Tour that year (the one when Armstrong and Basso were killing other riders on the big climbs; 2005, was it?) because he also claimed that Lance was chasing me.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Ouch!

The heckler had clearly been watching the Tour that year (the one when Armstrong and Basso were killing other riders on the big climbs; 2005, was it?) because he also claimed that Lance was chasing me.

I'm sure that was it, I just couldn't resist a bad Ivan the Terrible joke...

 

[User169]

News in NL this week is that Boogerd has fessed up. Not entirely surprising, I guess, and it was "I did dope, but not at the Tour" type confession.

 

[thom]

News in NL this week is that Boogerd has fessed up. Not entirely surprising, I guess, and it was "I did dope, but not at the Tour" type confession.

yep guardian story here : http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/06/michael-boogerd-admits-doping

 

[rich p]

Does Boogerd really expect anyone to believe that he didn't dope at the TdF when he was beating juiced up riders like Armstrong? They must take us for idiots.