The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

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Noodley

Guest
Hmm not sure your mate Kimmage would agree with you there Noods.

I just dinnae see Roche at the time of his triple having anywhere near the same influence as Armstrong. I may be wrong, although that would be a first :laugh: I don't think he is a positive influence for the sport now and would like him to bugger off unless he changes his views and makes a stand against doping rather than pissing about worrying about riders having their zips done up to thier neck.
 

thom

____
Location
The Borough
There was an interesting story I read about 1 relatively unknown clean cyclist who had to retire early because he refused to take drugs From the LA era but not bassons. Scott something ? Anyone know? I can't find the story now ..:sad: Bit vague I know but it was posted by someone in one of the mamoth LA threads I can't trawl through them again !
If you type in "clean cyclist scott" to google, that's all you need to get Scott Mercier ;-)
 

screenman

Legendary Member
I think it is a setup and that he is still innocent.^_^

In other words I was one of the idiots who hoped and felt he was not guilty, just shows my wife is correct when she says I am hopeless at judging a persons character.

I would like to apologise slightly more sincerely than Lance did for wasting the time of others who tried to convince me in the past of his guilt and admit that at my very advanced years (56) that I certainly still get things very wrong.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Oh well, at least Sir Brad is clean................................................isn't he?
Armstrong's data when climbing were coming out as something like 'theoretical limit of human performance' plus 5%, whereas Sir Brad's were more like 'theoretical limit of human performance' minus a few % which to me sounds perfectly reasonable for a top athlete!
 

StuAff

Silencing his legs regularly
Location
Portsmouth
I think it is a setup and that he is still innocent.^_^

In other words I was one of the idiots who hoped and felt he was not guilty, just shows my wife is correct when she says I am hopeless at judging a persons character.

I would like to apologise slightly more sincerely than Lance did for wasting the time of others who tried to convince me in the past of his guilt and admit that at my very advanced years (56) that I certainly still get things very wrong.
In another thread early last year, I posted this:
The whole question of his guilt/innocence on doping...well, the smoking gun, the positive test, remains absent. Like Martin, I think the principle of innocent until proven guilty is one worth upholding. It's hard for me to see the continued campaigning of certain journalists against him as anything other than mudslinging. Yes, it seems ridiculous that he was clean when Pantani wasn't, Ullrich wasn't, Riis wasn't, and so many of his friends and former teammates weren't. But nor is it completely implausible. Apart from the physiological changes caused by cancer and his recovery, he quite clearly applied the same spirit that in many respects got him through the worst of his illness to his training.
Oh, the benefits of hindsight…Certainly, I've had my doubts over the past few years, but I preferred to have a bit of faith in the body of proof, or lack there of. Back then, I hadn't read much of the evidence that makes such an overwhelming case LA's admission is redundant- some I just hadn't read, some has either emerged for the first time or been brought to much greater attention. I was not, for example, aware that Armstrong's performances were out of the realms of any clean athlete, nor of the extent of his bullying of his own team, let alone his other victims like Emma O'Reilly and Betsy Andreu. I certainly wasn't aware, until relevant extracts from Tyler Hamilton's book were published, just how easy it was to dope and get away with it. Riders knew when they could take stuff without fear of being caught, and that skipping a test could be as simple as hiding under the kitchen table. Which makes you wonder how stupid Landis, Vinokourov, Rasmussen and all the others who've been caught had to be...
And on my last point: I was right and wrong. His determination certainly played a part in getting through cancer. He did train harder than others (in part, undoubtedly, facilitated by all the drugs). But he also doped harder....as has been posted over on YACF, if he'd been clean he would have been a real hero, not just a fallen one. Perhaps we'd be now be talking of him as the legitimate winner of multiple Tours. And we'll never know one way or another.
 

geopat

Über Member
Location
Edinburgh
What I can't comprehend is that he said he regretted his comeback as he was pretty sure that if he hadn't made the comeback he wouldn't have been found out and wouldn't be sitting with Oprah right now. By that he confirms even now he would have been happy to be a cheat for the rest of his life as long as he wasn't found out.

He was never ever going to come clean. That really stinks.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
By that he confirms even now he would have been happy to be a cheat for the rest of his life as long as he wasn't found out.
He broke the rules, and knew when he was doing it that he was breaking those rules, but he didn't consider that to be cheating! :wacko:
 

geopat

Über Member
Location
Edinburgh
He broke the rules, and knew when he was doing it that he was breaking those rules, but he didn't consider that to be cheating! :wacko:

Yes, but I thought in the interview he was trying to give the impression that was then, the old Lance, not now. But no,he would never have came clean and was happy to deal with the rumours for the rest of his life.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Yes, but I thought in the interview he was trying to give the impression that was then, the old Lance, not now. But no,he would never have came clean and was happy to deal with the rumours for the rest of his life.
It's a confusing picture that he is painting, isn't it! He says that he wants to come clean, but there are things he still doesn't want to talk about. There are other things that are almost certainly true that he is probably still lying about. (The hospital conversation.)

It seems that he is willing to own up to most stuff that are from 7 years or more ago and I bet that is because of the Statute of Limitations.

Supposedly, he came back from retirement as a relatively old athlete who hadn't competed much for several years and straight away managed 3rd in the toughest bike race in the world, only clean that time! And why would he be doing it clean when he didn't think that he had done anything wrong cheating levelling the playing field in the first place?
 

Melvil

Guest
harmstrong_by_kharashov-d5rwmvs.jpg
 

Kies

Guest
This interview isn't an apology ... PR exercise in damage limitation. He wants to draw a line under it and move on. thankfully the world won't let him!
 

400bhp

Guru
He broke the rules, and knew when he was doing it that he was breaking those rules, but he didn't consider that to be cheating! :wacko:

Even more odd is that he actually looked up the word "cheat".

He's a sociopath-a Robert Maxwell on two wheels.

I think Betsy Andreu said something like "it's a long process for him to come clean and he's going completely the wrong way about it". Spot on that.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Even more odd is that he actually looked up the word "cheat".

He's a sociopath-a Robert Maxwell on two wheels.

I think Betsy Andreu said something like "it's a long process for him to come clean and he's going completely the wrong way about it". Spot on that.
There is certainly something very intense and cold about him. You can almost see his mind working before he speaks, as if he is calculating what the effect of his words will be.

Let's see if he is redeemed by the waterworks tonight when he chokes up talking about his children and Livestrong ... :whistle:
 
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