The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

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ufkacbln

Guest
asterix said:
If we permit cyclists cheats then the LA phenomenom whereby a certain rider wins the TdF every year for several years will become commonplace. I find that very tedious, just as I find football cheats tedious.
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Of course the other issue with concentrating on the use of PEDs and a single rider is that other things may have possibly have been missed.

Do the recent revelations of the Vinokourov bribery allegations and fixing of a classic race open up a new line of inquiry.

Given the corruption in the USPS team, and the "win at any cost" ethos.......can we be sure there were no other irregularities?
 
U

ufkacbln

Guest
asterix said:
Well I must also admit to colluding in LA's infamy because I bought a Trek this year. It is a Soho and I bought it almost entirely because it is belt drive, hub geared, low maintenance bicycle.
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There are lots of people around here who wear Livestrong shorts.. mainly because the local Nike store used to knock them out at about £15 along with the Nike category winner's tops
 
O

Orbytal

Active Member
asterix said:
Well I must also admit to colluding in LA's infamy because I bought a Trek this year. It is a Soho and I bought it almost entirely because it is belt drive, hub geared, low maintenance bicycle.
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asterix said:
Fortunately Trek have gone some way to removing the stain from the escutcheon by cutting their links with LA as much as they can:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trek-breaks-ties-with-lance-armstrong

As it happens, all my other bikes are steel with handbuilt wheels but they all have Shimano components (bar one that has Campag).

My other problem is that I did actually go to a stage of the TdF and deliberately took a photo of LA and Hincapie. I shall ceremonially destroy the negative (it was a long time ago). Any recommendations as to a suitable ritual to be observed when I do it would be appreciated.

On the plus side I own no books by, or about LA.
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I think if you wish to erase memories of all the dopers, not just LA and GH, burn all the films whole, don’t even look through them, because you will not find anyone clean from the thousands of pics you undoubtedly took!

I find it absolutely incredible the lack of objectivity from some on here unable to reconcile the history of Cycling is doping years before and after LA etc. If I am wrong how are we still seeing riders being sanctioned for EPO use?

The blind faith in WADA etc is also astounding when they set down the rules for doping and failed themselves to catch these serial dopers. Their greatest achievement, as they have self proclaimed, is catching a doper from 1999 to 2005 after Federal Agents put a gun to the heads of the witnesses. Their biggest weapon is forced testimony and not anti-doping measures!

WADA was created by IOC as their social conscience with a deliberately limited operating basis for the simple reason that those who run Sport at the highest level see it as a controllable necessary evil and as long as some results are uncovered all is good and the big sponsors will remain with them. If anyone thinks the IOC are not looking at what USADA have done and willing to stand back and see it repeated are also naive especially if someone like Coca Cola may be willing to walk if it gets out of hand.

Sport is a business with risks and with all risks these are reviewed and managed to either eradicates them or control them and doping shall remain as long as Sport exists and money can be made so it shall be controlled.

Think for 1 moment that you are big Sponsor of an event do you want to see your event with headlines with nothing spectacular or headlines that show outstanding performances?
Records have been set using PED's for years so how do clean athletes in the next few generations break them without PED's and why would Sponsors be willing to invest for reduced returns. Human evolution can only happens slowly under natural influences but quicker with added assistance as we have all seen.
We have all broken the law at one time or another such as driving too fast, parking illegally and dashing to get something and back etc. all which we see as Manageable Risks so why should Sport not see issues within their activities as manageable risks also?
WADA cannot do all testing because they can’t afford to and will never be allowed to. I think they should be allowed and separated from everyone but that means IOC lose control and if I ran IOC I would not allow that to happen either.

UCI changes need to be Hein out first with a new operating strategy for Pat to work with. Pat can claim since he took over the Peloton has cleaned up and we would all agree even if you don’t like him. Also there is no readymade successor!
Cycling will continue after LA but the mockery that has happened to him is unfair, unjust and totally immoral on every level and smacks of Dictatorship Ruling and USADA to claim it was not a witch hunt and an investigation into US Cycling is simply insulting to everyone.

Maybe some here are happy to live with catching LA at all costs but I cannot accept that. USADA had an operating responsibility to inform UCI and WADA of their findings up to 2010 before the Feds investigation but failed and openly allowed admitted doping Cyclists to compete, earn form contracts, earn from sponsors and winnings at events when they should have been banned. They did not do this in the name of US Cycling as these riders were not taking to task until now and a lame sanction and their own rules state they should be investigated for their failure but that does not appear to be important!

If anyone is happy to accept the only rules are those made up by WADA as they go along DONT even start to say UCI need to change and/or condemn Hein and Pat as their sins are nowhere near as bad as these. Faults exist at every corner of Sport and everywhere in-between and failure to acknowledge this is blind ignorance to say the least.

I believe LA should be sanctioned as any other rider should but this MUST be within the rules and if the rules are inadequate change them but don’t break them as this makes WADA worse than LA as their mantra is a moral high ground for Sport and they are openly failing to achieve this.

At some point in time the elephant in the room will be pointed at and the serious failings will hopefully be addressed and the moral guidance that has been lost will be reinstated.

 
OP
OP
mickle

mickle

innit
Location
53.933606, -1.076131
Cunobelin said:
Of course the other issue with concentrating on the use of PEDs and a single rider is that other things may have possibly have been missed.

Do the recent revelations of the Vinokourov bribery allegations and fixing of a classic race open up a new line of inquiry.

Given the corruption in the USPS team, and the "win at any cost" ethos.......can we be sure there were no other irregularities?
Click to expand...

Why can't you see that the horse you are flogging is dead?
 
Hont

Hont

Guru
Location
Bromsgrove
asterix said:
The alternative was having to admit he was wrong about something on a forum.
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See I've read that several times now and still the concept makes no sense to me.

Admitting you're wrong on a forum. Admitting you're wrong on a forum.

Nope, you might as well have written that in greek.
 
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