The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

[ColinJ]

I think his shop is called "Mellow Johnny's", he looks fairly mellow in the photograph.

Okay, Johnny's then!

The name Mellow Johnny's probably originates from Texans mispronouncing Maillot Jaune and since he now officially didn't ever win a Maillot Jaune (Tour de France winner's yellow jersey, for those who don't know), he should change the name of his shop.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

The lack of responses to your post of last Friday, (apart from Cunobelin who displayed the link that you highlighted).

I think this thread is simply dying its natural death because there's nothing more to talk about with regard to Armstrong - all the interesting stuff is now about what happens to the management of cycling and that's on other threads. Of course the other thing is that with the race season over, far fewer people even come into this area of the forum...

WADA, in the meantime, has disputed the allegations.

 

[rich p]

I think this thread is simply dying its natural death because there's nothing more to talk about with regard to Armstrong - all the interesting stuff is now about what happens to the management of cycling and that's on other threads. Of course the other thing is that with the race season over, far fewer people even come into this area of the forum...

WADA, in the meantime, has disputed the allegations.

Some of the AWOL are not missed. Their families have been informed.

 

[thom]

The WADA stuff is certainly of concern but I had no time for people who used to detract from the examination of LA/US Postal. I think events have shown, the LA scandal was such a chronic problem that such obfuscation was unacceptable.
Was it not the case that WADA only got oversight of cycling just before the Athens Olympics ? I'm not sure and hope to be confirmed/corrected.

As far as other stuff going on, it's mostly politics and training rides : there are noises about east european/russian money coming into play ( http://uec-federation.eu/news/new_sponsor_of_european_cycling_union-s277.html ) and names like Tchmil lurking in the background.
Bruyneel's case will come up, the Padua case goes on and I don't know what is happening with Puerto but that might reveal something.

 

[johnr]

Now that he's left the board of Livestrong he's got even more opportunity to relax in that darkened room in Texas with his yellow jumpers.

Hope they checked the accounts before he left... and the stationery cupboard.

The WADA stuff is certainly of concern but I had no time for people who used to detract from the examination of LA/US Postal. I think events have shown, the LA scandal was such a chronic problem that such obfuscation was unacceptable.
Was it not the case that WADA only got oversight of cycling just before the Athens Olympics ? I'm not sure and hope to be confirmed/corrected.

As far as other stuff going on, it's mostly politics and training rides : there are noises about east european/russian money coming into play ( http://uec-federation.eu/news/new_sponsor_of_european_cycling_union-s277.html ) and names like Tchmil lurking in the background.
Bruyneel's case will come up, the Padua case goes on and I don't know what is happening with Puerto but that might reveal something.

And decisions need to be made about Armstrong's cash. As there's very little action on that front, I wonder whether former sponsors have been warned by their lawyers that they knew/should have known what was going on?

 

[ufkacbln]

I can see several problems with the sponsor's cash and winnings.... again the problem is concentrating on the individual at the expense of the bigger picture.

Firstly there would be a solid legal argument that at the time they had benefited from the relationship and therefore it would be difficult to prove that Armstrong had not delivered........ Considering the present situation, if they can now prove that the association has caused the brand greater damage than benefit they may stand a chance.


Secondly a lot of this money does not just go to the individual but other team members as well...... do you just reclaim his portion, or do you also try and reclaim the share paid to the mechanics as well?

This is not at all as easy as it seems.

 

[rich p]

I don't see the issue with money given to team-mates. If I rob the local post office and give the proceeds to my chums, I think I'm still liable for a cock and hen stretch.

 

[thom]

I don't see the issue with money given to team-mates. If I rob the local post office and give the proceeds to my chums, I think I'm still liable for a cock and hen stretch.

Wasn't the story that Frankie Andreu didn't get one of those bonuses because Lance was pissed with him fro not doping ?

 

[ufkacbln]

I don't see the issue with money given to team-mates. If I rob the local post office and give the proceeds to my chums, I think I'm still liable for a cock and hen stretch.

You really think that sponsorship is similar to robbing a Post Office?

 

[thom]

Legally not a problem at all. I am merely enjoying the ironic nature of this potential sanction.

He probably paid tax on it too that he can't reclaim ;-)

 

[rich p]

You really think that sponsorship is similar to robbing a Post Office?

It's the winnings he is supposed to dish out, isn't it?
He also asked Tyler Hamilton to forgo his cut.

 

[ufkacbln]

It's the winnings he is supposed to dish out, isn't it?
He also asked Tyler Hamilton to forgo his cut.

His income was from two sources, and in many cases was not simply personal.

For instance Nike sponsored US Postal kit and Trek equipped the whole team with bikes, there were also the running costs

Like it or not, the team and individuals in the team benefited from sponsorship, and a share of the sponsorship deals was paid to the team members who all shared in the cash paid by sponsors

Either way (winnings or sponsorship) it is not going to be easy to prove how much of a particular deal any individual received.

 

[ufkacbln]

... or do the Sponsors have o claim it back from the team members?


All really rather a matter of conjecture. The simple is that it is going to be neither simple, nor easy to regain the money.

 

[ufkacbln]

But once again the question is whether we should be looking at a lone incident.

Should we not be seeking to recover the fraudulent claims for all the others involved?

• Frankie Andreu
• Michael Barry (cyclist)
• Leonardo Bertagnolli
• Volodymyr Bileka
• Tom Danielson

• Tyler Hamilton
• George Hincapie
• Jörg Jaksche
• Floyd Landis
• Levi Leipheimer

• Filippo Simeoni
• Stephen Swart
• Christian Vande Velde
• Jonathan Vaughters
• David Zabriskie

All of these rides were part of the sponsorship fraud in some way or another.

 

[Alun]

Once again, let's start at the top with the standout egregious example and then work our way down

Do you mean get Armstrong and forget about everyone else?
I can't think where Armstrong gets this witch hunt idea from !