The Frugality Thread

[jowwy]

Northumbrian Water. But, I would have thought such arrangements were pretty standard, in England if not Scotland, Wales.

The 10mth years was stopped in wales some time ago, to make it look like a cost reduction by spreading it over 12mths and adding a bit on.

that was both water rates and council tax

 

[Reynard]

My hot water bottle is from Wilko.

Fleece cover on mine, as a wool one would get all snags in it thanks to Madam Lexi's claws.

 

[Tail End Charlie]

I know it's a bit weird and against generally accepted opinion, but I much prefer getting into a stone cold bed! Water bottles, over or under electric blankets would be in room 101 for me!

 

[Fab Foodie]

We have 2 Whippets, no need for hot water bottles or electric blankets....

 

[PaulSB]

People love to demonise the supermarkets, but they're not the culprits when it comes to food waste:
(Data from WRAP)
View attachment 661445

I'm sure the graphic is true in relation to post-farm waste but it does not take into account the wastage created by supermarket quality requirements. Any fresh produce seen on sale in a supermarket will have been through a stringent grading process to ensure only "perfect" produce reaches the shelves. This creates significant amounts of waste prior to produce leaving the farmgate.

This is waste driven by consumer demand for what is perceived as quality. Every tomato, lettuce, cucumber etc must be the same shape, size, colour etc. This is a fiction dreamt up by supermarkets to minimise their waste and pass it back to the producer. It's a quality standard the supermarkets have sold to the consumer who now demands this thus completing the circle and creating more waste.

 

[PaulSB]

We moved to reusables mainly to try to reduce our plastic waste footprint. Reusable nappies, DE razor, plastic free toiletries, soap refills. A lot of it is also on subscription and delivered to the door which is great and gives you one less thing to think about. I don't think all of it is necessarily cheaper than the alternative but you need to balance economy with ethics and also with convenience to an extent. Cheap stuff is cheap for a reason. Sometimes more expensive things are more economical in the long term (Vimes boots theory) and sometimes they're better in terms of things like environmental impact and fair conditions for the workers who make them.

I have extremely strong opinions on VAT related to period products but I think they're really best aired on a different forum.

Have you considered the impact multiple doorstep deliveries have on our environment as a whole? While your choice may reduce your personal plastic footprint its possible these home deliveries are having a far greater overall environmental impact.

Things like soap refills are very difficult. It sounds great in principle but I think the outcomes are questionionable. On a cost basis, this is the frugality thread, our local refill shop is generally at least double the price of a supermarket product - eg: washing up liquid 35p/100ml against Aldi 16p/100ml. Then there are transport issues etc. to take into account. Saving a plastic container while laudable is only a very small part of the story.

If refillables were available in supermarkets it could be a different situation. Even then one has to be very careful. Take Kenco coffee refill pouches as an example. The coffee is more expensive and while the packaging is technically recyclable in reality it can't be. It's therefore cheaper and sounder environmental practice to buy a glass jar and ensure that goes to recycling.

It's a very complex issue with the real solution being for consumers to demand action from retailers rather than fiddling around at the edges ourselves.

 

[winjim]

It's a very complex issue with the real solution being for consumers to demand action from retailers rather than fiddling around at the edges ourselves.

Well quite, and it can all seem rather futile. After all I've been taking my own bags to the supermarket for thirty five years and didn't drive a car until I was in my thirties yet the planet still seems to be on fire and full of plastic. My hope is that by using what little purchasing power I have, I can demonstrate to retailers and manufacturers that there is a market for low packaging reusable and refillables and maybe this will prompt them to provide more environmentally sound alternatives. Many of us all nudging things along just a little bit might just work.

I don't think we should blame individuals for poor environmental choices though. We're part of a society which has certain rules and expectations. There are aspects of my lifestyle and my position in society which mean I have to prioritise convenience. This leads to me making choices which are not necessarily the most environmentally sound and I'm aware of it but I'll be buggered if anyone's going to make me feel guilty. It's much easier to scapegoat individuals than it is to do something about the real problem, but that's a discussion for another forum.

 

[oldwheels]

I'm sure the graphic is true in relation to post-farm waste but it does not take into account the wastage created by supermarket quality requirements. Any fresh produce seen on sale in a supermarket will have been through a stringent grading process to ensure only "perfect" produce reaches the shelves. This creates significant amounts of waste prior to produce leaving the farmgate.

This is waste driven by consumer demand for what is perceived as quality. Every tomato, lettuce, cucumber etc must be the same shape, size, colour etc. This is a fiction dreamt up by supermarkets to minimise their waste and pass it back to the producer. It's a quality standard the supermarkets have sold to the consumer who now demands this thus completing the circle and creating more waste.

Aldi have wonky carrots which are mostly a bit twisted but perfectly good carrots.
Our local coop also has wonky carrots which look like the floor sweepings and rot before your eyes as son as unpacked.

 

[oldwheels]

I only drank it on Eriskay, which I understood was untreated, straight from a tiny lock.

Probably full of lots of free protein. Before our new water treatment plant was installed and when I did my own photo processing I used a lot of water washing B & W prints in the bath. When I had finished washing the bath had lots of interesting wildlife swimming around.

 

[lazybloke]

I know it's a bit weird and against generally accepted opinion, but I much prefer getting into a stone cold bed! Water bottles, over or under electric blankets would be in room 101 for me!

Mild circulatory problems here - a cold bed will see me curled in a ball, shivering uncontrollably!

I have to dress for warmth at bedtime, and have a hot water bottle, plus a blanket over the duvet. It's great if the cats have slept in the right place during the evening.

Once the bed warms up, I cab feel too hot and have to cast off the extra layers, but the air in the room can still feel very cold. A few times I've worn a hat!

My comfort issues are exacerbated by a cold room; the heat isn't retained well at night, so I've changed the windows and I'm currently improving the insulation in the ceilings. I reckon a thermostatic leccy blanket would be great for me.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Three of the kids are moaning about "prices".

All have partners that could work but don't want to.

Go figure...

And no, there will be no bailouts from us.

 

[MontyVeda]

I know it's a bit weird and against generally accepted opinion, but I much prefer getting into a stone cold bed! Water bottles, over or under electric blankets would be in room 101 for me!

Same here. The only thing that's going to happen is it warms up.

 

[Reynard]

I'm sure the graphic is true in relation to post-farm waste but it does not take into account the wastage created by supermarket quality requirements. Any fresh produce seen on sale in a supermarket will have been through a stringent grading process to ensure only "perfect" produce reaches the shelves. This creates significant amounts of waste prior to produce leaving the farmgate.

This is waste driven by consumer demand for what is perceived as quality. Every tomato, lettuce, cucumber etc must be the same shape, size, colour etc. This is a fiction dreamt up by supermarkets to minimise their waste and pass it back to the producer. It's a quality standard the supermarkets have sold to the consumer who now demands this thus completing the circle and creating more waste.

Not strictly true.

You also have to consider the packaging for stuff that isn't loose. It helps if items are a uniform shape, as the packaging process is mostly automated. And then packs of things have to fall within a range for a particular weight. Because then, it's so many packs to a tray, so many trays to a pallet, so many pallets to a truckload etc. From a commercial perspective it makes sense. And having items a uniform size means that packaging can be optimised to protect the product from as much damage in transit as possible.

The engineer in me totally gets this, especially after having done modules on packaging and robotics as an undergraduate.

However, the cook and forager in me despairs, because we're dealing with products that are subject to the whims of mother nature, and it's the flavour and quality that ought to take precedence, as opposed to the shape and size. Ergo I've no problem buying wonky fruit and veg.

Although sometimes with the wonky / value fresh produce, you do need to double check, because sometimes it's actually more expensive than the non-wonky stuff. Soft fruit is where you have to be *particularly* careful, but that's another matter.

I've just made a lovely apple sauce from apples I foraged from a hedgerow (they're some kind of russett) and some Cottenham Seedlings from the community orchard - none of which would ever make it to the supermarket shelves. But it tastes fabby (added fresh ginger, plus some cinnamon and corriander and sugar), and it'll go nicely with my yellow sticker sausages this evening.

 

[gbb]

I know it's a bit weird and against generally accepted opinion, but I much prefer getting into a stone cold bed! Water bottles, over or under electric blankets would be in room 101 for me!

Absolutely, nothing worse than a warm bed. Frigid, perfect, it only takes a few minutes to come up to your temperature. But I am very prone to overheating in bed, even with windows open , that drives my preference.

 

[gbb]

Not strictly true.

You also have to consider the packaging for stuff that isn't loose. It helps if items are a uniform shape, as the packaging process is mostly automated. And then packs of things have to fall within a range for a particular weight. Because then, it's so many packs to a tray, so many trays to a pallet, so many pallets to a truckload etc. From a commercial perspective it makes sense. And having items a uniform size means that packaging can be optimised to protect the product from as much damage in transit as possible.

The engineer in me totally gets this, especially after having done modules on packaging and robotics as an undergraduate.

However, the cook and forager in me despairs, because we're dealing with products that are subject to the whims of mother nature, and it's the flavour and quality that ought to take precedence, as opposed to the shape and size. Ergo I've no problem buying wonky fruit and veg.

Although sometimes with the wonky / value fresh produce, you do need to double check, because sometimes it's actually more expensive than the non-wonky stuff. Soft fruit is where you have to be *particularly* careful, but that's another matter.

I've just made a lovely apple sauce from apples I foraged from a hedgerow (they're some kind of russett) and some Cottenham Seedlings from the community orchard - none of which would ever make it to the supermarket shelves. But it tastes fabby (added fresh ginger, plus some cinnamon and corriander and sugar), and it'll go nicely with my yellow sticker sausages this evening.

The size issue does seem a waste but there is a cost implication by having odd sizes, particularly with mass / volume production / packing. Volume and speed drive down cost, the only way to have speed with machinery, counting or weighing, is uniformity.
And yes, I've always found 'wonky' products more expensive. Bogger the supermarkets, profiteering on the publics attempts to do the right thing...but then, the above goes some way to explain WHY its more expensive.