The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Justinslow]

you'll also find tales all over the place of people being killed doing all sorts of everyday activities... swimming, walking to the shop, driving, playing football, climbing a ladder... this stuff happens daily.

Yes I agree.

 

[Justinslow]

Can i also suggest that cycling isn't dangerous?

You said cycling wasn't dangerous, I beg to differ, that is all.

 

[MontyVeda]

In my experience cycling isn't dangerous. Nor is walking to the shop or sitting in a car and being driven to the shop... yet all three of these activities do occasionally result in an unforeseen injury or even a fatality. Do you consider walking or sitting in a car a dangerous activity?

 

[ufkacbln]

Is wearing a helmet the only thing you can think of which would make these aspects safer in your opinion?

Unfortunately from previous posts, it is

 

[Profpointy]

Cycling is perfectly safe so long as you remember it's dangerous !


( phrase normally used for my sport of scuba diving - which in fairness is quite dangerous)

 

[totallyfixed]

This is a case of perception getting in the way of facts, I have to think those who believe this must have a nervous disposition. Most of the actions quoted as being dangerous are those of a careless cyclist, analogous to a pedestrian jaywalking. anyone with a modicum of common sense would do neither much less if they had the tiniest bit of experience. If it were otherwise cyclists would be KSI in alarming numbers, they are not.
If you actually believe cycling is dangerous, why do you do it? If you are unlucky enough to have an accident it will nearly always be through misjudgement / lack of skill on your part, not the actions of a third party. What you really ought to be concerned about is the perception you are giving to those who are about to get their first bike / return to cycling after many years, which is that cycling is dangerous and that is why you wear a helmet. Utter nonsense.

 

[Justinslow]

In my experience cycling isn't dangerous. Nor is walking to the shop or sitting in a car and being driven to the shop... yet all three of these activities do occasionally result in an unforeseen injury or even a fatality. Do you consider walking or sitting in a car a dangerous activity?

Look I know where this is going - "well why don't you where a helmet whilst walking to the shops" blah blah.....
Based on personal experience I've never crashed whilst walking to the shops or drinking beer or climbing a ladder or driving to the shops or being a passenger in a car or playing football, but I have crashed several cycles and a couple of motorcycles.

 

[Justinslow]

This is a case of perception getting in the way of facts, I have to think those who believe this must have a nervous disposition. Most of the actions quoted as being dangerous are those of a careless cyclist, analogous to a pedestrian jaywalking. anyone with a modicum of common sense would do neither much less if they had the tiniest bit of experience. If it were otherwise cyclists would be KSI in alarming numbers, they are not.
If you actually believe cycling is dangerous, why do you do it? If you are unlucky enough to have an accident it will nearly always be through misjudgement / lack of skill on your part, not the actions of a third party. What you really ought to be concerned about is the perception you are giving to those who are about to get their first bike / return to cycling after many years, which is that cycling is dangerous and that is why you wear a helmet. Utter nonsense.

Ok well at least you'll be alright, no need to wear a helmet as you are clearly perfect and live in a perfect bubble.
So the lady who rode through a pothole and was ejected into the path of a vehicle, was she careless in your book?

 

[ufkacbln]

Therein lies the biggest issue


Rally drivers and saloon car racers wear helmets and fire proof overalls yet there is no pressure for the lower risk leisure driver or commuter to comply

Kids on the school run require neither

Yet when it comes to cycling the opposite is true, dangerous and high risk cycling is used to bully and coerce the leisure cyclists into wearing the same kit

 

[ufkacbln]

Ok well at least you'll be alright, no need to wear a helmet as you are clearly perfect and live in a perfect bubble.
So the lady who rode through a pothole and was ejected into the path of a vehicle, was she careless in your book?

No... But Casualty attendances show pedestrians who trip on cracked pavements and potholes are admitted with head injuries (and fatalities) daily, in fact far more frequent than cyclists

Is a pedestrian that trips on a pothole and dies careless in your book?



PS one could be pedantic and point out that the cyclist in question WAS wearing a helmet according to some reports, so using this as an example of helmet efficiency is at least desperate. It is an unfortunate accident where multiple injuries caused her sad demise. One of the things that helmet evangelists tend to forgets .... Where motor vehicles are involved it is rarely the head injury that is the cause of death

 

[totallyfixed]

Ok well at least you'll be alright, no need to wear a helmet as you are clearly perfect and live in a perfect bubble.
So the lady who rode through a pothole and was ejected into the path of a vehicle, was she careless in your book?

Look, you are being silly now, the chances of that happening in the first place are probably far less than a pedestrian stepping out in front of a car [clue, there are more pedestrians], add to that a helmet is going to be next to useless if hit by a vehicle.
My perfect bubble as you call it, well now as it has become personal, I have cycled in the region of a quarter of a million miles, raced, toured and ridden in some of the busiest cities. In all that time I have has quite a few "offs" as you might imagine. I have not once been hit by another vehicle and only on one occasion have I hit my head, this on spilled diesel where I considered it more prudent to save my bike rather than me. Either I am the luckiest man on earth or the most skilful, of course I am neither.

 

[martint235]

Look I know where this is going - "well why don't you where a helmet whilst walking to the shops" blah blah.....
Based on personal experience I've never crashed whilst walking to the shops or drinking beer or climbing a ladder or driving to the shops or being a passenger in a car or playing football, but I have crashed several cycles and a couple of motorcycles.

Any evidence at all that your helmet helped in any of your cycling crashes?

 

[martint235]

You haven't noticed the traffic on your average road? - you don't regard 60ton artics on your elbow dangerous.
I think 110 people last year may not agree if they were alive to consider it.

And out of interest, what tests does a cycling helmet undergo that makes it relevant to the average road?

 

[Justinslow]

No... But Casualty attendances show pedestrians who trip on cracked pavements and potholes are admitted with head injuries (and fatalities) daily, in fact far more frequent than cyclists

Is a pedestrian that trips on a pothole and dies careless in your book?



PS one could be pedantic and point out that the cyclist in question WAS wearing a helmet according to some reports, so using this as an example of helmet efficiency is at least desperate. It is an unfortunate accident where multiple injuries caused her sad demise. One of the things that helmet evangelists tend to forget

The point was made that "cycling is not dangerous" I'm not blathering on about whether you should or shouldn't wear a helmet, just pointing out that "cycling" certainly can be "dangerous".
I agree a helmet may or may not be of any use in any particular accident, sure if you happen to get run over by a vehicle, clearly nothing much will help you.
A helmet is not a "magic invisible shield".

What you really ought to be concerned about is the perception you are giving to those who are about to get their first bike / return to cycling after many years, which is that cycling is dangerous and that is why you wear a helmet. Utter nonsense.

Forget the bit about wearing a helmet, that is up to the individual, but yes if someone asked my advice about cycling around some of the roads that I use, then yes, it can be dangerous, you'd have to be blind to not see that.

 

[Justinslow]

Look, you are being silly now, the chances of that happening in the first place are probably far less than a pedestrian stepping out in front of a car [clue, there are more pedestrians], add to that a helmet is going to be next to useless if hit by a vehicle.
My perfect bubble as you call it, well now as it has become personal, I have cycled in the region of a quarter of a million miles, raced, toured and ridden in some of the busiest cities. In all that time I have has quite a few "offs" as you might imagine. I have not once been hit by another vehicle and only on one occasion have I hit my head, this on spilled diesel where I considered it more prudent to save my bike rather than me. Either I am the luckiest man on earth or the most skilful, of course I am neither.

I'm not being personal, and well done on your achievements, but you refuse to believe that "cycling can be dangerous" this is just plain wrong, of course it can be dangerous.