The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[srw]

Ok I do understand the " right to decide" argument, and personally I don't think it could ever be made a mandatory requirement to wear a helmet, too difficult to enforce. But surely they are of a benefit in preventing damage to the head ?

I mean bang your head without one...... ouch right ? Put one on and maybe not so ouchy?

I understand the logic of a helmet protecting your head but I don't see a logic to why not wearing one would be safer.
I am fairly new to cycling and wonder if someone could explain why they are considered, by some, to be so bad.

If you've got a long time and the patience to get round a lot of detailed discussion of small volumes of data, the definitive website to go to is here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/

There's a shorter summary of the issues from the CTC here, although it focuses more on the question of compulsion than their effectiveness: http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cycle-helmets

In summary, the answer to your question is that for the individual rider they're probably not as effective as people think in reducing injury, and may even increase some injuries. For the population as a whole they give the false perception that cycling is something dangerous that needs special equipment, and there is strong evidence that making them compulsory has the perverse effect of increasing injury.

(And, @Shaun, a summary of the key issues with pointers to evidence is, I think, an essential sticky, otherwise this thread will just go round in circles. Give me permission and I'll open a new thread to see whether there's a consensus on the key questions that need to be addressed. I have no hope whatever of a consensus on the answers to those questions.)

 

[PpPete]

If you've got a long time and the patience to get round a lot of detailed discussion of small volumes of data, the definitive website to go to is here: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/

That site includes details of exactly what kind of impacts helmets are designed to withstand (in a lab - to pass the tests required various standards).
I did take the time to read that detail, because I (occasionally) write engineering standards in another safety-critical field.
which is why I'm another who

For the record, used to wear one, felt safer, and thought it foolish not to, but changed my view after looking into it.

 

[srw]

That site includes details of exactly what kind of impacts helmets are designed to withstand (in a lab - to pass the tests required various standards).
I did take the time to read that detail, because I (occasionally) write engineering standards in another safety-critical field.
which is why I'm another who

So am I. In my case because I'm responsible for all the risk management oversight for my company, and after doing quite a lot of reading, arguing and thinking I realised that helmets are not an appropriate response to the very minimal risk.

 

[Hacienda71]

An anonymous poll would be interesting covering, I wear one through choice, I have to wear one because of circumstance (racing, sportive etc.), I don't, I do sometimes etc.

 

[mjr]

Hi folks. I'm pleasantly surprised that most of this has been so pleasant so far

But surely they are of a benefit in preventing damage to the head ?

The evidence I've seen so far is inconclusive.

I mean bang your head without one...... ouch right ? Put one on and maybe not so ouchy?

I feel that's the wrong starting point - I think it's known as begging the question. If you're banging your head, then you've already basically lost. Maybe a crash helmet may mitigate crash damage but often they seem to be adopted instead of minimising the sources of danger, which is not an acceptable approach to risk management in other fields. For example, in the Avoid/Control/Accept/Transfer model, crash helmets seem like accepting the risk of crashing and trying to protect part of the body. Wouldn't similar logic mean you should wear moderate body armour to protect the rest of the body?

So instead I look at cycling wearing a crash helmet compared to cycling freely: which gives you the best outcome expectations?

I understand the logic of a helmet protecting your head but I don't see a logic to why not wearing one would be safer.
I am fairly new to cycling and wonder if someone could explain why they are considered, by some, to be so bad.

We don't really understand why yet. The logic is a lot less obvious than dropping a crash-helmetted disembodied dummy head onto a floor or a kerb (which is basically all that the test is - hit a rock? You're outside the tested scenarios) and showing a lack of damage on the dummy head. There are tons of theories suggested about why they don't lead to an improved expected outcome and even the simple physical ones like increased rotational forces are a lot less easy to demonstrate/evaluate in experiments than the decreased impacts.

This now-locked thread contains many personal reasons from various posters: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/why-wouldnt-you-wear-a-helmet.180820 (mine was post 63)

Do people with naturally larger heads suffer more head injuries in general?

I don't know and I'd love to find the data. I've seen some claims that children are more likely to suffer head injuries partly because their heads are larger proportionate to their bodies than adults, such as http://insidesoccermagazine.ca/wrapping-head-around-concussions/

I have read comments before about the weight and extra height of a helmet altering your centre of gravity and increasing the chances of hitting your head. This also seems like clutching at straws as the effect would be negligible in an already unlikely scenario.

The crash scenario is not my problem with the added weight and height/width of a crash helmet - it's that the added weight and size are exerting extra forces on my neck all the time I'm rattling over our rough roads, which led to a mild neck injury (it was still amazingly painful but I say mild because it's not like I was paralysed or anything) and was the reason I looked into crash helmet evidence more closely and stopped wearing one.

You often hear people say they were saved by their helmet, but you don't hear people saying they would have been screwed by a helmet or had a lucky escape by not wearing one. All I've heard from people who don't wear helmets is that they don't have accidents.

You haven't been listening to me?

Haven't many of us snagged our crash helmets on low-hanging branches and low arches? I know I did. I've also had branches brush off my cycling cap that probably would have snagged in the air vent of a crash helmet but I don't know if those would have taken me off the bike, jarred my neck or just snapped the branch.

But the "don't have accidents" bit is important too. I'm a graduate statistician, I know about risk compensation (so I shouldn't be doing it, right? Or at least recognise in hindsight when I've done it) and yet I still crash less since taking the helmet off. I don't have a good firm explanation, but there are various theories out there: my current favourite theory is that helmets lead to hotter brains which impairs decision-making.

And they mess up your rather snazzy bouffant do....

My other hats mess up my hair too and it needs a quick comb sometimes. I don't buy that as a widespread reason against helmets because loads of people cycling around here wear other hats to keep the sun or wind off.

 

[sanddancer]

I wear a helmet mainly because the felt pads inside help keep the sweat out of my eyes and although I probably look an even bigger nob wearing one and lycra,
teamed with my sports shades I'm a less recognisable lycra clad nob

 

[mjr]

I wear a helmet mainly because the felt pads inside help keep the sweat out of my eyes and although I probably look an even bigger nob wearing one and lycra,
teamed with my sports shades I'm a less recognisable lycra clad nob

Yebbut you're probably sweating more for having thick polystyrene all over your head. The traditional solution if you still sweat without a helmet is a cycling cap with the brim down so it drips off away from your face

Do you feel being less recognisable encourages you to cycle more nobbishly? I wonder if that is a factor in why wearers might crash more. Me, I can't seem to get away with anything without someone I know seeing me and telling me about it later

 

[winjim]

An anonymous poll would be interesting covering, I wear one through choice, I have to wear one because of circumstance (racing, sportive etc.), I don't, I do sometimes etc.

It's been tried. There will always be those who disagree with how it's worded, or even with being asked the question in the first place.

 

[sanddancer]

Yebbut you're probably sweating more for having thick polystyrene all over your head. The traditional solution if you still sweat without a helmet is a cycling cap with the brim down so it drips off away from your face

Do you feel being less recognisable encourages you to cycle more nobbishly? I wonder if that is a factor in why wearers might crash more. Me, I can't seem to get away with anything without someone I know seeing me and telling me about it later

Noo hats are too pratish
anyway the helmets have strategically placed air vents to cool my bonce more efficiently

 

[MontyVeda]

... If you're banging your head, then you've already basically lost. Maybe a crash helmet may mitigate crash damage but often they seem to be adopted instead of minimising the sources of danger, which is not an acceptable approach to risk management in other fields. ...

I used to pride myself on not having fallen off my bike in 25 years... then sod's law kicked in and I fell off three times in as many weeks. did I hit my head? No. Did I buy a helmet just in case I did fall off and hit my head in future? No. What I did do is ask myself why I'd fallen off three times in three weeks and came to a simple conclusion... I was taking that particular set of corners too fast (the three offs were in more or less the same place). Now i simply slow down and am aware of the risk that either Yorkstone paving or steel bridge sections present, especially when it's wet.

I guess a comparable scenario would be slippery floors in factories. Should the management provide safety helmets just in case, install none slip flooring or put a little yellow sign up saying 'slippery surface'?

 

[mjr]

What I did do is ask myself why I'd fallen off three times in three weeks and came to a simple conclusion... I was taking that particular set of corners too fast (the three offs were in more or less the same place).

My last off was on ice. I shouldn't have ridden that bike on that route at that time. I think that may have been the last time I wore a crash helmet although I didn't hit my head. My corrective actions were to buy some spiked tyres for when I choose to ride in icy conditions and hang a thermometer by the bike store so I'm not relying on a faraway weather station to predict ice.

anyway the helmets have strategically placed air vents to cool my bonce more efficiently

I'm so glad you put the else I might have thought you believed that!

 

[double0jedi]

Ok read a lot of articles that have been linked and checked out threads on this and other forums. This subject fascinates me.
I wear one, simply because I had an accident that damaged my helmet quite badly and I would not have liked to think how my skull would have absorbed the same impact. Saved my life ? Whose too know ?
Saved me from a life changing head injury ? Guess we will never know.
Saved me from a hard impact and undoubtedly a lot of pain? Yes.
The accident?
A clipless moment whilst attempting to get used to cleats... fell over when I came to a stop, I went down very hard and my head hit the ground.
Apparently we all have clipless moments , so I take it that applies to both helmet and non helmet wearers?
Was there any way at all not wearing the helmet would have prevented the fall? I don't think so, but did me wearing it make me over compensate and cause the fall? Again I don't think so.

It was an accident, and like all accidents, whilst avoidable, it caught me out.
My point is, my own experience has cemented the notion that the helmet did what it should have that day, and is therefore a good thing. I felt how hard I hit the floor and I saw how smacked up and dented the helmet was. I don't claim it saved my life but I am 100% convinced it did nothing to cause the accident and would I like to repeat the experience without a helmet? Not a chance.
I understand some of the reasoning behind not using on but my own experience obviously clouds my judgement.

There is one argument about not wearing a helmet that I really do not understand. Some claim they can simply avoid accidents by being careful? Really ? They are able to control every variable in there lives?

Wish I had that sort of power.

 

[snorri]

Apparently we all have clipless moments ,

No, never had one, never used clipless.... in common with most .utility cyclists.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Falling off a bike is quite different to walking through a hail of bullets or a low doorway. I can understand a smaller target being harder to hit, but when your body is travelling head first towards an immovable object such as a road or car, I think the target (head) size is far less relevant. Do people with naturally larger heads suffer more head injuries in general?

In some cases a helmeted head might clip a car or a lampost where it might otherwise have not, but you might still be hitting the road with your head after missing said car or lampost. I haven't considered the near miss scenario before, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

I have read comments before about the weight and extra height of a helmet altering your centre of gravity and increasing the chances of hitting your head. This also seems like clutching at straws as the effect would be negligible in an already unlikely scenario.

You often hear people say they were saved by their helmet, but you don't hear people saying they would have been screwed by a helmet or had a lucky escape by not wearing one. All I've heard from people who don't wear helmets is that they don't have accidents.

Most trips to the floor are far more mundane: lost balance, clipless moments, going down sideways after overcooking a corner than the lurid head first spearing into the ground or other vehicle eg's used and in almost every case another body part gets there first to absorb the brunt of it.

I've never heard or read of someone that doesn't choose to wear a helmet say they don't have accidents.
More often its that they feel it makes them a more cautious rider and they perceive vehicles treating them differently.

I posted on here a few weeks ago about a crash I had. I wasn't weaing a helmet so it has no significance to mention in my recounting the incident.

People recounting incidents while wearing helmets are naturally going to ascribe a significance to the helmet as it validates to them the rightness of their choice to wear it in the first place.

People falling off without a helmet don't have that element to fixate on so moan about the bent brake lever and scuffed paintwork instead.

 

[martint235]

Everyone has accidents. I've banged my head more time than I can remember. Only twice on a bike though. One with helmet once without. Both hurt in proportion to the impact speed.
Did the helmet help? Don't think so. Did it change the outcome? Don't think so. To be fair the helmeted crash was then low speed one.

The question is evidence. I would have a think about wearing one if the evidence provided was similar to that of say a motorcycle helmet. At the moment though the only people telling me they work are helmet manufacturers and people on here who believe them. I trust you paid your donation to Kask or whoever for a new helmet?