The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[ebikeerwidnes]

What a terrible one-sided article. No balance in the Guardian?

As he fell off a bike surely the lack of balance was Ramsey's problem


sorry

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

It does seem good that an article has appeared saying that cyclists in The Netherlands should think about wearing helmets

From everything I have read previously it would be reasonable to believe that cyclist in the Netherlands NEVER come off their bikes
It has been put forward as an environment that i so safe that it is impossible for a cyclist to come to any harm at all when on a bike

OK OK OK - not really - but if you have people riding around on 2 wheels then some will fall off - Some places may get things massively better than the UK - but most articles I have read have seemed to exaggerate the place rather a lot.

 

[matticus]

From everything I have read previously it would be reasonable to believe that cyclist in the Netherlands NEVER come off their bikes
It has been put forward as an environment that i so safe that it is impossible for a cyclist to come to any harm at all when on a bike

Aha - fighting hyperbole with hyperbole! This is bound to end well 👍

 

[mjr]

From everything I have read previously it would be reasonable to believe that cyclist in the Netherlands NEVER come off their bikes
It has been put forward as an environment that i so safe that it is impossible for a cyclist to come to any harm at all when on a bike

OK OK OK - not really - but if you have people riding around on 2 wheels then some will fall off - Some places may get things massively better than the UK - but most articles I have read have seemed to exaggerate the place rather a lot.

Last I checked, there were two big differences driving the worsening casualty statistics in the Netherlands: the first is that the cycling infrastructure feels so safe there's a big uptake of e-bikes among older riders to allow them to stay independently mobile, when in the UK they would either keep driving or become dependent on taxis, dial-a-ride and so on; the second is that a self-inflicted fall from an e-bike seems to be counted in NL traffic casualty numbers in many situations when it wouldn't be in the UK. For example, if someone accidentally activates the motor on an e-bike walking it to the road (by pressing a walk assist button or knocking the cranks forwards hard, for example) and it knocks them over, then NL would count that as a traffic casualty, whereas the UK wouldn't (it would be an accident in the home, or at a shop or whatever).

Would helmet use help with those crashes? Maybe because they're the sort of low-speed single-person falls that cycle helmets are for, but maybe not much because a lot of the injuries are probably from bodies hitting bikes, or bikes falling onto people, without head injuries. At the scale of public health advice, it seems like the deterrence of cycling by promoting helmets would have more drawbacks than the benefits. As the Guardian points out, this is being led by "Dutch government and provinces" which sadly saw more of the anti-cycling, anti-public-transport PVV elected in the recent votes. While I've some sympathy for the neurologist, even if it seems a bit dodgy that her mother's death in a car-cycle collision (not what cycle helmets are for) is used to spread the helmet gospel, it's a shame the Guardian didn't explore the claims from the "Road Safety" and "injury prevention" organisations more. That type of organisation typically pretends the drawbacks don't exist and that helmets can only improve things, are always worn correctly and only ever work as intended.

 

[Rusty Nails]

What a terrible one-sided article. No balance in the Guardian?

Not every article needs to be balanced. It's outlining one point of view and is called journalism not a PhD thesis.

 

[simongt]

"well it could happen to any driver" attitude that courts take.

Problem is that the car lobby has been so powerful for so many years, no Government is going to take a stand on this without being accused of 'further persecuting motorists'.

 

[Slick]

It does seem good that an article has appeared saying that cyclists in The Netherlands should think about wearing helmets

From everything I have read previously it would be reasonable to believe that cyclist in the Netherlands NEVER come off their bikes
It has been put forward as an environment that i so safe that it is impossible for a cyclist to come to any harm at all when on a bike

OK OK OK - not really - but if you have people riding around on 2 wheels then some will fall off - Some places may get things massively better than the UK - but most articles I have read have seemed to exaggerate the place rather a lot.

I'm not long back from a wee mini tour of the Netherlands and it is definitely cycling nirvana but I don't think I've seen a single person say that accidents never happen. Also, I'm not sure article's I've read actually do it justice.

 

[Slick]

Every country will contain some motorists who would be happy to see fewer cycling.

I'm sure, and conversely, every country will have drivers wishing they could cycle, although I'm not sure of the relevance unless you are suggesting the report was written by the anti cycling brigade?

 

[Slick]

Road CC weighing in with their tuppence worth and some interesting facts to argue over.


https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-government-calls-cyclists-wear-helmets-308929

 

[mjr]

Road CC weighing in with their tuppence worth and some interesting facts to argue over.


https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-government-calls-cyclists-wear-helmets-308929

Can't tell if some of them are facts or opinions because few have sources given. Couple of Dutch "safety" experts making the mistake I mentioned earlier of only mentioning the benefits, ignoring the drawbacks.

 

[Slick]

Can't tell if some of them are facts or opinions because few have sources given. Couple of Dutch "safety" experts making the mistake I mentioned earlier of only mentioning the benefits, ignoring the drawbacks.

To me it looks like a combination from the Netherlands transport ministry, Dutch neurosurgeons, injury prevention organisation Veiligheid NL, The Dutch Institute for Road Safety Research and Gordon Ramsay.

Obviously they've included the Dutch "safety" experts Fred and Wullie, but I'm unsure to what degree.

 

[icowden]

Can't tell if some of them are facts or opinions because few have sources given. Couple of Dutch "safety" experts making the mistake I mentioned earlier of only mentioning the benefits, ignoring the drawbacks.

Have you considered that they may feel that the benefits outweigh any drawbacks?

 

[matticus]

Have you considered that they may feel that the benefits outweigh any drawbacks?

How can we tell? It would be more persuasive if they actually said that - but how often do helmet evangelists acknowledge both sides?

"Why wouldn't you wear one?!?"
"There's no excuse!"
... are both comments I've read just in the last 48hours ...

 

[mjr]

Have you considered that they may feel that the benefits outweigh any drawbacks?

Yes. It's possible, but the quoted comments show no sign of it.

 

[MontyVeda]

Have you considered that they may feel that the benefits outweigh any drawbacks?

but only focusing on one side of a debate makes it a wholly biased article... which isn't useful for a reader hoping to learn something.