The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[ufkacbln]

For someone who so frequently, and correctly, points out that there's a lot of over-stating of the benefits of helmets by some organisations with an axe to grind it's odd that you've fallen into the same trap. There are only about 3,000 cyclists killed or seriously injured a year in this country in total. And any head injury causing concussion or worse counts as a serious injury. That includes all kinds of injury - not just head injuries caused by motorists.

You'd be verging on hyperbole if you said that there were "thousands a year" of cycling KSI in total. "Thousands" normally implies rather more than three thousand. Strip out all the injuries that are not head injuries caused by motorists (only about half of cycling injuries are caused by motorists) and there certainly aren't thousands.

I'd also disagree that there is a lot of blame-passing, or that there is a lot of benefit to the "motoring lobby" (which I'd argue doesn't really exist except as a fairly amorphous blob) from doing it - but those are matters of opinion rather than fact.

You have missed the point

These are the claims that are being made, not my claims

 

[srw]

Which comes back to my cynicism

There s a massive benefit to the motoring lobby to be expolited with cyclist head injuries, but a massive (perceived) dis-benefit to the sports listed

Imagine the fuss if you took head contact with the ball from football

You have missed the point

These are the claims that are being made, not my claims

Really? Not what it looks like to me.

 

[Wobblers]

I disagree, a lot of the "mumbo jumbo" is poor attempt at humour and tries to make light of cycle helmets adding nothing but sarcasm. Every other thread is directed by the mods to stay on topic, what's wrong with rules?

No, it's just your opinion that it's "mumbo jumbo" and sarcasm. Other people have different opinions. On the point of actually adding something to this thread, your complaints fall that test too. Many, indeed most, threads drift off-topic occasionally. But, CC is a place where a diversity of views can be seen and expressed - and it is very much better for it. CC is somewhere that the Tea Thread and SC&P can both exist, and that is a tremendous credit to it, and Shaun. I wouldn't want it any other way. It's just a shame that you think otherwise, and don't appreciate just how much such tagential discussions enrich the place.

 

[ufkacbln]

You wish to dictate to anyone who finds cycle helmets ridiculous that they cannot express this in the most obvious of ways.

Methinks it is very simple

Anything pro helmet - reliable evidence
Anything that is not pro helmet - "mumbo jumbo"

 

[ufkacbln]

Hmmm,,, 'thousands' would normally be taken to mean multiples of a thousand - I'm not sure of any definition that says it has to be more than three thousand.... so two thousand or three thousandper annum can rightly be described as 'thousands'.

BHIT quoted 100,000
Headway quoted 90,000

 

[Joffey]

*mod* Helmet article on This Morning today.*end mod*

Looks like a cyclist was't wearing a helmet and got badly injured... No doubt will spark the debate off again...

(FYI I wear a helmet but it's my choice and I don't think they should be made compulsory - each to their own and all that )

 

[MontyVeda]

I expect tomorrow they'll report on the harrowing tale of a pedestrian who fell down some steps and got badly injured, or the passenger in a car who's head smacked against the side window...

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I expect tomorrow they'll report on the harrowing tale of a pedestrian who fell down some steps and got badly injured, or the passenger in a car who's head smacked against the side window...

Does nobody recall the Glasgow woman who called for cyclists to wear helmets (and is apparently furious they don't) after she suffered two blood clots on the brain, a broken pelvis and ribs, a burst spleen and liver damage when she fell onto the pavement?

The only problem is she didn't fall from a bike, she fell 30ft from her first floor balcony while sleepwalking - I shoot you not.

Why didn't she demand helmets for everyone who sleeps above the ground floor?

 

[MontyVeda]

Does nobody recall the Glasgow woman who called for cyclists to wear helmets (and is apparently furious they don't) after she suffered two blood clots on the brain, a broken pelvis and ribs, a burst spleen and liver damage when she fell onto the pavement?

View attachment 147650

The only problem is she didn't fall from a bike, she fell 30ft from her first floor balcony while sleepwalking - I shoot you not.

Why didn't she demand helmets for everyone who sleeps above the ground floor?

So.. she falls from a window in 2004 and ten years later, the Evening Times runs this story

 

[Scoosh]

@glasgowcyclist - now that is a classic !

 

[Scoosh]

So.. she falls from a window in 2004 and ten years later, the Evening Times runs this story

I think it might have been because June 2014 was when Glasgow introduced its Nextbike scheme and she wanted to 'raise awareness/ a fuss' about helmets when she saw the cyclists on the bike hire scheme were not wearing helmets - and shortly before the Commonwealth Games too, IIRC.

 

[Brandane]

Interesting statistic I came across while reading something else on Cheshire Police Twitter page:

Cheshire Police Retweeted
CheshPol taskforce ‏@CPTaskforce Oct 18


97% of fatally injured #cyclists died not wearing a #helmet. Give yourself a chance and #PutALidOnIt

This is where statistics get up my nose. Depending on how you read that, it could mean that any number of fatally injured cyclists were wearing a helmet at the time of the accident, but 97% of them later died - after the helmet had been removed. Or did the helmets disintegrate on impact, or fall off because they were wrongly fitted?

 

[velovoice]

Or 97% cyclists who have died from injuries did in fact die from injuries other than head injuries? If you're crushed by a lorry, how is helmet status even relevant?

 

[MontyVeda]

Interesting statistic I came across while reading something else on Cheshire Police Twitter page:

Cheshire Police Retweeted
CheshPol taskforce ‏@CPTaskforce Oct 18


97% of fatally injured #cyclists died not wearing a #helmet. Give yourself a chance and #PutALidOnIt

This is where statistics get up my nose. Depending on how you read that, it could mean that any number of fatally injured cyclists were wearing a helmet at the time of the accident, but 97% of them later died - after the helmet had been removed. Or did the helmets disintegrate on impact, or fall off because they were wrongly fitted?

That's one for Radio 4's More or Less. If anyone can get to the bottom of that stat, they can.

 

[Mugshot]

Here's something which appeared on the Facebook page of one of my local clubs, I was invited to join when the club was formed (about 12 months ago) and did, I haven't ridden with them as yet, you may be able to guess why;

Hello Hornets. I feel a bit awkward about being accepted into your group as I'm not actually a cyclist! I saw you all cycling through Nolton a little while ago and noticed your snazzy T-shirts. I looked for you online because I noticed that you were all wearing helmets. I am working on a helmet safety awareness project after my daughter had a skateboarding accident (without a helmet on) and I thought you may be good people to talk to about this (sometimes awkward!) subject? Emma (feel free to remove me if non cyclists aren't welcome!)

Like
Comment
3 3
Comments

Hi Emma - I cycle for Narberth Dynamos and during the summer I had a serious accident whilst cycling - fractured scapula. I was wearing my helmet at the time which smashed into 5 pieces. I believe without wearing the helmet I could have had a life changing injury. I am also aware of an accident that occurred in Nolton with a little girl on a skateboard - I am assuming she is your daughter. If I can help in anyway I would be more than happy to do so. I fell very strongly about this subject as I am I headteacher in a local primary school where I encourage children to cycle and scoot to school.
Like · Reply · 2 · 17 hrs

Wow! Simon thank goodness you were wearing it! I hope you are ok now? Yes, that was my daughter. Skateboard stopped when it hit a stone and she fell back landing on her head. We were VERY lucky. She is doing remarkably well!
Like · Reply · 1 · 17 hrs

I hope she is doing well, if I can help in anyway please get in contact. I have attached a photo of my damaged helmet.

Like · Reply · 2 · 17 hrs

Hi Simon, apologies for the delay in replying. Are you busy next Saturday afternoon? I am running a Q & A session at the Picton Centre, 12-5.30. It would be great to chat about any ideas you may have? https://www.facebook.com/events/1809922115920735/ I...See more

Here's a bigger picture of the damaged helmet.