The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[ClichéGuevara]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soccer-players-show-signs-of-brain/

 

[srw]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soccer-players-show-signs-of-brain/

Soccer players show sign of brain? Really?!

 

[jefmcg]

Soccer players show sign of brain? Really?!

Which ones? I'm guessing not Rooney.

 

[Justinslow]

How have the last few posts got through the mods? Seriously.
Irrelevant mumbo jumbo.

 

[Tanis8472]

Are all replies being moderated?
If so, that explains why mine has not been approved. Not that I posted anything stupid

 

[benb]

Are all replies being moderated?
If so, that explains why mine has not been approved. Not that I posted anything stupid

First time for everything!

 

[Wobblers]

How have the last few posts got through the mods? Seriously.
Irrelevant mumbo jumbo.

I can't be the only one to recoil in horror at the idea that every post has to be dull, boring and completely on topic. One of the nice things about CC is that threads sometimes drift off topic. And it can hardily be said that those posts are any worse than the usual round of claim, counter-claim and insult. Or, for that matter, your complaint about them.

I also have to say that you're attempting to set the boundaries of the conversation here. That, at best, is entirely against the spirit of the purpose that this thread was set up for.

 

[Mugshot]

I also have to say that you're attempting to set the boundaries of the conversation here. That, at best, is entirely against the spirit of the purpose that this thread was set up for.

Personally I think the boundaries have been well and truly set due to what I believe were the concerted efforts by some members to get this thread locked entirely but arguably achieved the next best thing of having it fully moderated.

 

[Justinslow]

I can't be the only one to recoil in horror at the idea that every post has to be dull, boring and completely on topic. One of the nice things about CC is that threads sometimes drift off topic. And it can hardily be said that those posts are any worse than the usual round of claim, counter-claim and insult. Or, for that matter, your complaint about them.

I also have to say that you're attempting to set the boundaries of the conversation here. That, at best, is entirely against the spirit of the purpose that this thread was set up for.

I disagree, a lot of the "mumbo jumbo" is poor attempt at humour and tries to make light of cycle helmets adding nothing but sarcasm. Every other thread is directed by the mods to stay on topic, what's wrong with rules?

My mate has broken his leg in a football match, and can't ride his bike.

That's conclusive proof that playing football can protect cyclists from head injury.

And what if a large ornament falls off a shelf onto his head whilst he is watching telly whilst recovering from said broken leg?

He'd be immune, as he's no longer a cyclist.

Soccer players show sign of brain? Really?!

Which ones? I'm guessing not Rooney.

Really? Who's making £300k plus sponsorship a week and leading his country out at Wembley?

 

[shouldbeinbed]

To reply to Justinslow as a fellow poster not a moderator in any way at all.

JS you have a particular view of helmets in line with some but not shared by everyone. Football is one example of a sport not requiring helmets but still seeing deceased players having their deaths officially classified as caused by or contributed to by the percussive nature to the brain of heading footballs (go and look up the coroner and family reports of Jeff Astle and Danny Blanchflower for two big names of days gone by) it should play more into your line of thinking that your opponents. It seems very odd that you'd be decrying that line of thought.

American football (helmets ahoy) has a billions of dollars class action law suit reaching its final phases right now about similar subject and players of very high calibre and status who have died 'naturally' / taken their lives / gone way off the rails attributed to percussive brain injury.

Cycling as a sport, a hobby, a fitness pursuit, a means of transport, whatever one rides a bike for is not unique in the consideration of damage caused to the head by whacking it onto other stuff and shaking the brain about inside the skull. To pretend it is, is just daft.

What has Wayne Rooney's foot/eye/autonomic brain coordination got to do with his earning power anything more than the fact that enough people think Elton John or Mick Hucknall's vocal chords entitle them to millions of pounds of record sales or royalties. His intellect or that of any other massive earner in a non academic (YKWIM) pursuit is an absolutely moot point when you are being as po-faced and serious as you are about it, as opposed to the variety of other posts that are clearly tongue in cheek & lampooning the thick ball hoofing stereotype.

You show me a thread on any forum that has stayed on topic and not seen a quick and dull demise and I'll show you dozen that meander around a theme and keep the interest and activity of the site going and raise interesting if apparently tangential points and opinions.

Dave Beasant, arguably Wimbledon's most famous ever goalkeeper, was injured for 8 weeks of a football season (1984 ono) after dropping a jar of salad creme on his foot, so posts that you quote as seemingly fatuous do have a basis in reality.

We're 368 pages into the route march of utter futility, do you honestly think we'd have got here without the odd scenic diversion on the way?

 

[EnPassant]

We're 368 pages into the route march of utter futility

Not utterly futile in my view. I stopped wearing one based on the contents of this thread (well the first 230 pages or so). Others may also have changed their minds (not necessarily in the same direction of course).
Largely futile? Probably, utterly so? Not in my case. Not an argument against the thrust of your post with which I heartily concur, more an observation.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Not utterly futile in my view. I stopped wearing one based on the contents of this thread (well the first 230 pages or so). Others may also have changed their minds (not necessarily in the same direction of course).
Largely futile? Probably, utterly so? Not in my case. Not an argument against the thrust of your post with which I heartily concur, more an observation.

I take your point entirely, apologies for over egging the recipe

I'm referring to futile much because I think a great many of us (justinslow and myself for sure) already have our own rather entrenched view on helmets and whatever another says will have little effect on those views on the subject.

I do sometimes forget that we've not all been on here for many years and maybe have not been riding bikes since Adam was a lad.

 

[Justinslow]

To reply to Justinslow as a fellow poster not a moderator in any way at all.

JS you have a particular view of helmets in line with some but not shared by everyone. Football is one example of a sport not requiring helmets but still seeing deceased players having their deaths officially classified as caused by or contributed to by the percussive nature to the brain of heading footballs (go and look up the coroner and family reports of Jeff Astle and Danny Blanchflower for two big names of days gone by) it should play more into your line of thinking that your opponents. It seems very odd that you'd be decrying that line of thought.

American football (helmets ahoy) has a billions of dollars class action law suit reaching its final phases right now about similar subject and players of very high calibre and status who have died 'naturally' / taken their lives / gone way off the rails attributed to percussive brain injury.

Cycling as a sport, a hobby, a fitness pursuit, a means of transport, whatever one rides a bike for is not unique in the consideration of damage caused to the head by whacking it onto other stuff and shaking the brain about inside the skull. To pretend it is, is just daft.

What has Wayne Rooney's foot/eye/autonomic brain coordination got to do with his earning power anything more than the fact that enough people think Elton John or Mick Hucknall's vocal chords entitle them to millions of pounds of record sales or royalties. His intellect or that of any other massive earner in a non academic (YKWIM) pursuit is an absolutely moot point when you are being as po-faced and serious as you are about it, as opposed to the variety of other posts that are clearly tongue in cheek & lampooning the thick ball hoofing stereotype.

You show me a thread on any forum that has stayed on topic and not seen a quick and dull demise and I'll show you dozen that meander around a theme and keep the interest and activity of the site going and raise interesting if apparently tangential points and opinions.

Dave Beasant, arguably Wimbledon's most famous ever goalkeeper, was injured for 8 weeks of a football season (1984 ono) after dropping a jar of salad creme on his foot, so posts that you quote as seemingly fatuous do have a basis in reality.

We're 368 pages into the route march of utter futility, do you honestly think we'd have got here without the odd scenic diversion on the way?

Well you have your view, I have mine, I'm not as "hard nosed" as you would believe actually.
I'm no expert in head injuries through heading the ball in football, but given that so many people throughout the world (kids included) participate in football, if there were people constantly suffering brain injury, do you not think something might be done about it?
My old man played to a reasonable level back in the 70's with "real mans" balls, he's not lost it yet at 73.
Use the football angle if you like but they are not all thickos, there's plenty of other muppets in other sports.

 

[jefmcg]

I disagree, a lot of the "mumbo jumbo" is poor attempt at humour and tries to make light of cycle helmets adding nothing but sarcasm. Every other thread is directed by the mods to stay on topic, what's wrong with rules?

Really? Who's making £300k plus sponsorship a week and leading his country out at Wembley?

Is anyone else's irony alarm going off at this? Mine is sounding like a klaxon! It turns out that even people that think digressions are terrible, can't resist them. My harmless aside about Rooney was catnip to you, has now devolved into a discussion about the value of intelligence in football, and a philosophical discussion about moderation.

My reaction when I saw your initial complaint about it going of topic was to post something on topic - but it was late where I am, and when I came back the thread was in a full scale derail. To fix it, try posting something on topic, rather than just complaining.

Oh, and I don't think you know what mumbo jumbo is.

 

[jefmcg]

American football (helmets ahoy) has a billions of dollars class action law suit reaching its final phases right now about similar subject and players of very high calibre and status who have died 'naturally' / taken their lives / gone way off the rails attributed to percussive brain injury.

American football is interesting, because it clearly shows the potential deleterious effect of helmets**. It's hard to be sure of risk compensation in cycling, but in US football, you get young men at the peak of physical strength, weighing over 100kg, using their bodies like battering rams with their helmets taking the force - something they would not do bareheaded because they'd tear their skin or crack their skulls. So their brains experience deceleration constantly that would rarely happen without the helmets. Of course, as we can see in rugby head injuries will still occur, but athletes presumably won't be deliberating exposing themselves to that much trauma - and if there is visible blood, at least everyone will know the player is injured and he will be treated accordingly, while the silent assaults to a brain under a helmet can go unnoticed, unrecorded and untreated.

There are horror stories about retired players losing all the money they earned because they no longer have the intellectual capacity to spend it wisely, and their families breaking up due to personality changes and domestic violence. I remember reading the sad story about one such player, who ended up shooting himself in the chest, so he could donate his brain for testing for brain damage. Googling for that found me another similar case.

It's becoming obvious that they should stop using the helmets and modify the playing tactics accordingly. It will be interesting to see if that happens.

** I did a search and this doesn't seem to have come up in this thread.