The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

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srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
I saw a big cyclist on cyclist crash yesterday, it made me think of all the helmet debate threads I've ever had the misfortune of having seen, all rolled into one. One of the crash-ees was wearing a lid. The guy that crashed into him, wasn't wearing a lid. The lid wearer was giving CPR to the non lid wearer.

A series of interesting posts arising from this has been deleted. Just in case it stays deleted rather than gets moved, as I've asked, I'll pop in to say that I looked to see whether I could find evidence that a head injury can cause a heart attack. I couldn't find any, despite a reasonably diligent search. So my suggestion that the receiver of CPR probably just keeled over remains the likeliest.
 

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider

Formerly just_fixed
Are you suggesting that the head saves the helmet?
Post of the year imo.
 

screenman

Squire
So in normal use the force (compression aside) is passed to the contents of the helmet. Without a head or melon to absorb the force the helmet is just brittle polystyrene. Who would have thought it?

Yes the force is I feel applied, but is it spread over a larger area meaning less damage to the contents, of course I have no idea. But if I hit the melon with a hammer it goes straight in, if I hit the melon with the helmet in the way it does not. Now if I hit the helmet without anything inside it snaps, with something inside it does not. Nothing scientific just playing.

Now of course the chances of hitting your head in the first place is something else.
 

Pat "5mph"

A kilogrammicaly challenged woman
Moderator
Location
Glasgow
@screenman a melon is too soft compared to a human head.
I think lining the helmet with plastic, then pouring in a tin layer of plaster, letting it harden, then put this on top of a melon would give a better experiment.
 
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A series of interesting posts arising from this has been deleted. Just in case it stays deleted rather than gets moved, as I've asked, I'll pop in to say that I looked to see whether I could find evidence that a head injury can cause a heart attack. I couldn't find any, despite a reasonably diligent search. So my suggestion that the receiver of CPR probably just keeled over remains the likeliest.
It's more to do with the fact that the guys whack to the head caused him to get into such a state of unconsciousness, that the inevitable cardiac arrest ( not heart attack, they are different things), although a heart attack often leads to a cardiac arrest, occurred. When you are properly unconcious for any significant length of time, you will need CPR fairly quickly. The cardiac arrest part, is the inevitable consequence of a proper spark out.
 

screenman

Squire
It was not wasted.^_^
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
It's more to do with the fact that the guys whack to the head caused him to get into such a state of unconsciousness, that the inevitable cardiac arrest ( not heart attack, they are different things), although a heart attack often leads to a cardiac arrest, occurred. When you are properly unconcious for any significant length of time, you will need CPR fairly quickly. The cardiac arrest part, is the inevitable consequence of a proper spark out.
Yes - my bad. I was using colloquial English, in which "heart attack" is used interchangeably with "cardiac arrest".

Pulling what you're saying apart:

"A whack to the head led to unconsciousness" - that's possible, although it's your assumption in this case.

"It was so severe that it led to "inevitable" cardiac arrest" - that's what I'm struggling with. I've searched reasonably diligently, and can't actually find any evidence of this being other than a remote possibility in the event of really serious head injury - of the sort that would crush a helmet, a skull and large chunks of brain. Certainly it seems far from "inevitable".

"When you are properly unconscious for any length of time you will need CPR" - I'm no medic, but I simply don't believe that. Coma patients don't need CPR as the heart can carry on beating long after the rest of the body's functions have given up the ghost.

"The cardiac arrest part is the inevitable consequence of a proper spark out" - that's the bit I'm inviting you to reconsider.

The whole hit head - cardiac arrest - CPR scenario seems far less likely than a very simple, and sadly all too common heart attack - cardiac arrest - CPR scenario. If you want to think about cardiac arrest arising from trauma, a trauma to the chest looks more likely to result in cardiac arrest than an equivalent trauma to the head.
 

keithmac

Guru
I've got an my old MET at work, I've had it knocked off bikes a few times without damage, will drop it from 2m and see what happens.

Any helmet dropped from 1/2 meter with bits falling off is not fit for purpose imho..
 
To be quite honest if I was in trouble, I would rather people didn't bother discussing whether it was a heart attack, or cardiac arrest

Just get on with it!

 
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