The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Mugshot]

But I don't need evidence if it's something I believe and makes me feel better and more confident, then I'm happy to wear one when I decide fit. If that confidence is mis placed then I guess that's my look out.

I think you have misunderstood what I was referring to, you have suggested that some people here do not believe they can offer any help, I have not seen anyone saying that. Earlier in the thread somebody suggested the same, they were unable to offer any evidence to back that particular claim up.

 

[swansonj]

To be fair, I'm quite familiar from my day job with items of equipment that are designed to a higher level but certified only to a much lower standard. So, although sitting myself in the spectrum of views on cycle helmets well towards the "anti" end, I don't myself generally advance the "it won't be effective above 12mph" argument.

The key question about the relevance of the tests is surely why, in real life but not apparently tests, helmets so often split not crush.

 

[Profpointy]

since the 'walking' comparison has been raised... I wonder why mountain rescue teams aren't advocating helmets for fell walkers. I bet they attend more head injuries than anything else, many of which could be easily prevented. That rocky or uneven ground the walkers tread makes the likelihood of a fall far higher than urban walking, especially if they're paying more attention to the panorama than their footing. I suppose helmets for fell walkers is a whole new thread though.

well to a degree hillwalkers often do wear helmets for the more sporty hillwalks - eg Mont Blanc (which is a walk rather than climb I believe although very much "mountaineering") and the like. This is more for rocks kicked down by those above than falls per se. I forgot to take helmets for a via ferata trip in the Dolomite (to be fair almost climbing rather than walking) and was very aware of the risks of stones pinging down - and didn't have much confidence in straw hat.

Still you're not really going to bother for Jack's Rake or Crib Goch, but it wouldn't be daft either

 

[mjr]

a yes but woolly hat is the wrong answer - you shouldn't have fallen off in the first place rather than compensating with a dubios piece of safety equipment.

I see a woolly hat (cheap, light, lasts a long time, rolls up small, offers some snag/road rash and a little impact protection, doesn't obstruct my hearing) as a proportionate response to the risk. I think crash helmets (expensive, heavier, replace every 3 years, doesn't pack up, offers some road rash and more impact protection, makes snagging worse, wind noise from wide chinstrap) are disproportionate, especially given they appear to have other disbenefits meaning they don't improve outcomes overall.

Here's a pic from Sunday's family ride where me and the wife were not wearing helmets, I was even looking round one handed taking a photo for gawds sake! (Off road).

I don't know those brands, so it may be correct to be showing that much forehead, but are those helmets meant to be tipped that far back? Sorry for asking, but helmet advocates who then wear them strangely (tipped right back, dangling chinstraps and so on) do upset me.

Perhaps people could choose the manufacturers who sell their helmets mainly on the basis of their safety standards and record?

POC maybe? Anyone else?

 

[Profpointy]

Interesting thw woolly hat thing. When I first went caving as a kid - hand torch, no gear etc I banged me head and next trip had woolly hat which helped a good deal. Got proper helmet now of course, but you do bang your head a good bit more - it hurts less, but can give your neck a wrench. Not sure if there's a real moral here, but woolly hat helping, and more hits / neck wrenching are facts of helmets in another activity. In caving it's worth it - with the more severe biffs of cycling maybe not

 

[Justinslow]

yes really - think about it for a minute.

Beer drinking is associated very strongly with head injuries - yet anyone suggesting beer drinking helmets would be derided as an idiot. Your "combining with other road users" point is a complete non-sequitor. Surely what matters is risk of banging your head - considerably increased after drinking a lot of beer - especially in the company of others who've done the same.

Of course, I'm not really advocating any such thing - but logically perhaps we should. Either way comparison of risk in different activities is perfectly valid. I wouldn't be at all suprised if beer drinkers were more at risk of head injuries than cyclists - I dare say proven every Saturday night in casualty departments all round the country.

It might sound flippant or silly, but the point is a fair one

I've never banged my head during or after drinking beer, and I've drunk a lot in my younger days.....

 

[Justinslow]

Give it time, I remember helmets making their debut on the ski slopes, at the time I thought here we go again, H&S gone mad, not changed my mind.
This article on ski helmets has many comparisons with cycle helmets:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/s...se-but-no-decline-in-brain-injuries.html?_r=0

So should horse riders stop wearing riding hats I wonder? How about skate boarders, scooterers even, I don't know, just asking.......

 

[martint235]

I'd suggest they look at the evidence regarding their respective headwear and their perception of risk and then make their own decisions.

 

[mjr]

I've never banged my head during or after drinking beer, and I've drunk a lot in my younger days.....

I've even ridden my bike afterwards but I don't drink so much since the time I rode up someone's garden path instead of the adjacent cycle track

So should horse riders stop wearing riding hats I wonder? How about skate boarders, scooterers even, I don't know, just asking.......

As I don't do any of those (well, not any more - used to skateboard - didn't wear a helmet), I have little interest in them, but I have been told that horse riding helmets are designed to withstand both falling onto a rock and a hoof treading on them, which makes them sound considerably tougher than a cycle crash helmet if that's true.

 

[totallyfixed]

So should horse riders stop wearing riding hats I wonder? How about skate boarders, scooterers even, I don't know, just asking.......

I have a very strong personal reason for disliking helmets, that aside I despair at the direction our risk aversion society is moving in. We recently visited some friends near Oxford, went for a walk around the grounds Blenheim Palace accompanied by their 2 young boys on scooters, both are wearing helmets. On a downhill section they were both passed at some considerable speed by a girl about the same age also on a scooter but sans helmet and I just thought, yes!

 

[Mugshot]

So should horse riders stop wearing riding hats I wonder? How about skate boarders, scooterers even, I don't know, just asking.......

An awful lot of scooterers don't anyway, I remember a friend of mine that used to regularly berate me for not wearing a helmet telling me how pleased he was that his son (who was about 9/10) would automatically put his helmet on when he went out to ride his bike in their cul-de-sac. I asked him whether his son also automatically put a helmet on when he went out on his scooter as he had said recently that his son was pretty quick on it now. My mate stomped off telling me I was utterly stupid and that there was no point in trying to talk to me about anything. Odd.

 

[Profpointy]

So should horse riders stop wearing riding hats I wonder? How about skate boarders, scooterers even, I don't know, just asking.......

Not necesserilly. I am given to understand motorcycle helmets (for instance) are a real benefit. With cycling we seem to have good evidence (australia again) they the help not so much (on average) whatever people think. I'm inclined to think riding helmets would help rather more but this is speculation on my part. And you have a hard shell which would spread impact of sharp rocks and tree roots, good chin strap so it'll fit well and not fall off, and the things look neater / smaller than cycle helmets ao would not increase your head size quite so much. No idea i there's evidence proper thoug. Isn't horse riding awfully dangerous though as well.

 

[martint235]

Apparently horse riding hats undergo various rigorous tests including penetration tests. Also statistical evidence shows a drop in head injuries from 33% to 15% when helmets are worn along with an even greater reduction in injuries requiring hospital treatment.

Now I got that information from a simple Google search, why can't cycle helmet manufacturers publish similar data

 

[Mugshot]

Apparently horse riding hats undergo various rigorous tests including penetration tests. Also statistical evidence shows a drop in head injuries from 33% to 15% when helmets are worn along with an even greater reduction in injuries requiring hospital treatment.

Now I got that information from a simple Google search, why can't cycle helmet manufacturers publish similar data

Are they any good if you get kicked?

 

[martint235]

Kick protection is also tested. Standards are also continuously reassessed so much so that at the end of 2014 one major standard was deemed unsatisfactory and ditched.