The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Moderators]

MOD NOTE:
Yet another series of Posts have been Deleted, others Edited.

Stop the Personal stuff, Stop the insults, Stop the same arguments over and over- and do keep to the subject under discussion, without deviation, repetition, being pernickerty or deliberately mischievous.

Thank you.

 

[Justinslow]

MOD NOTE:
Yet another series of Posts have been Deleted, others Edited.

Stop the Personal stuff, Stop the insults, Stop the same arguments over and over- and do keep to the subject under discussion, without deviation, repetition, being pernickerty or deliberately mischievous.

Thank you.

It's about time the mods stepped in! Thankyou.

 

[Justinslow]

I don't recall dictating anything to anyone. It may be their choice alone but we're talking about advice... can advice be offered from both sides of the fence? ...or is it only valid when it comes from 'your' side??

From "my side" I'm not advising anyone to do anything, certainly not wear a helmet, that's up the person in question. If it was that icy though, I would probably advise to not cycle, which is the course of action I would take. I don't cycle enough in icy conditions to warrant studded tyres or live in an area where persistent ice is an issue, or commute by cycle. So if it's icy and I want to ride I'll use a turbo thanks.

 

[martint235]

We keep being told that wearing a helmet is a matter of choice, so upon making the choice to wear a helmet (however you came by that decision) you (not just Martin, all the other usual suspects aswell) then carry on telling us we made the wrong choice!
Why can't you just be happy with someone's choice that is "I want to wear a helmet" and if they say it did some good when they had an off why are they always wrong? (They can't always be wrong).
If you choose not to wear a helmet, well fine, we won't lose any sleep over it, it's not like we're family or mates or anything is it?

I'm happy for you to make a choice. I just don't want you choosing to wear one of the current fashion of helmets in the belief it's going to do something it's not. That's all.

 

[Justinslow]

No one is dictating anything, except you. In this scenario the person was possibly badly advised, and chose the wrong piece of safety equipment. The tyres would almost certainly have stopped them falling off altogether. Pointing that out isn't 'dictating' or ridiculous, and might just save falls in the future.

How about studded tyres and a helmet then? If that's what they feel comfortable with then why not?

 

[Profpointy]

[/QUOTE],

snipped....
but logically most wearers who say it did some good must be wrong because the numbers claiming to be saved far exceed the highest numbers ever head-injured, so someone claiming a helmet did them good is probably mistaken. Not certain or for definite, but probably.

snipped
I[/QUOTE]

there's an alternative analysis. It's quite possible that the helmet did help a lot of those who so claimed, if there are a balancing number of wearers whose injuries were worsened. Or a variant on that - significantly more helmet-wearers hit their heads than would have been the case without. Any of the 3 scenarious are consitent with the evdence. The bigger head will be hit moee is obviously true - but the other two may be true as well, but who knows what the proportions are

 

[Justinslow]

I just don't want you choosing

That's about it right there.
There you go again.

 

[Tim Hall]

I just don't want you choosing

That's about it right there.
There you go again.

Is there a rule about quoting out of context?

 

[benb]

Is there a rule?

Yes.

 

[martint235]

That's about it right there.
There you go again.

Ok I would prefer that you didn't make a choice based on mis-information particularly as that choice can have an impact on the perceptions of others leading them to make choices based on mis-information ad-infinitum.

Is it so bad that I want you to be able to see what a helmet can and can't do before you promote them (on here and by wearing one) ? In order to understand their limitations, tests need to be performed and evidence published.

And that was one of the worst examples of taking a quote out of context that I've ever seen.

 

[mjr]

If it was that icy though, I would probably advise to not cycle, which is the course of action I would take.

So that's the alternative to the oh-so-offensive suggestion of studded tyres - stop travelling whenever there's ice?

 

[Moderators]

ANOTHER MOD NOTE:
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[srw]

So that's the alternative to the oh-so-offensive suggestion of studded tyres - stop travelling whenever there's ice?

If you're purely a leisure/sporty rider, and don't see the bike as a transport solution it's probably a sensible suggestion.

 

[MontyVeda]

From "my side" I'm not advising anyone to do anything, certainly not wear a helmet, that's up the person in question. If it was that icy though, I would probably advise to not cycle, which is the course of action I would take. I don't cycle enough in icy conditions to warrant studded tyres or live in an area where persistent ice is an issue, or commute by cycle. So if it's icy and I want to ride I'll use a turbo thanks.

Some of us don't have a choice since we have two choices when it's icy; walk or ride. About a hundred pages ago i posted about the handful of times i'd come off my bike in icy conditions. My solution wasn't studded tyres, nor was it buying a helmet... it was riding more cautiously when the conditions dictate. Please, don't take this as 'advice'... it's just how i managed to think my way through a problem i faced.

 

[ufkacbln]

How about studded tyres and a helmet then? If that's what they feel comfortable with then why not?

This is brilliant - you are beginning to understand the principles.

By using studded tyres and by cycling in a safe manner you can reduce the risk of an accident

Far more effective than relying on the "complete protection" of a helmet

If the individual feels that they are comfortable with these adaptations to the point where they do not see a helmet as necessary - then why not?