The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Absinthe Minded]

The same sort of people who think that Lynx will guarantee they "pull a bird down the pub tonight"

Erm, that actually works. Some bird tried to eat my arm one night, thinking it was made of chocolate.

 

[MontyVeda]

Well yes I know, surprising they are "allowed" to say it though.....
...

Is it surprising? Advertising jargon (AKA bullsh!t) has been with us for years. There's tighter controls on what can be claimed in TV commercials than what is claimed on the interweb.... thinking about it, are there any controls for interweb 'blurb'?

 

[mjr]

thinking about it, are there any controls for interweb 'blurb'?

Yes, but they're rather weak. As I understand it, if the ASA tells a company to change something and they refuse, then that company shouldn't be able to advertise through any organisation that supports the ASA, which generally is broadcasters, mainstream publishers and ad hoardings, but didn't include any Internet Service Providers when I last looked.

So far, I only have a message about Rutland Cycling's stronger-than-Kask claim that says "Thank you for submitting your complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority. We will assess your complaint and we aim to let you know whether we intend to pursue it within ten working days. If we will not be able to reach a decision by that time we will let you know."

I will let you know as updates arrive. I leave complaining about the other dodgy claims to other people.

 

[MontyVeda]

Yes, but they're rather weak. As I understand it, if the ASA tells a company to change something and they refuse, then that company shouldn't be able to advertise through any organisation that supports the ASA, which generally is broadcasters, mainstream publishers and ad hoardings, but didn't include any Internet Service Providers when I last looked.

...

Interesting. Thanks. I guess we should take any claims of 'an increased sense of security' with a pinch of salt and wonder why they didn't claim 'an increased sense of safety'.

 

[Tim Hall]

Yes, but they're rather weak. As I understand it, if the ASA tells a company to change something and they refuse, then that company shouldn't be able to advertise through any organisation that supports the ASA, which generally is broadcasters, mainstream publishers and ad hoardings, but didn't include any Internet Service Providers when I last looked.

The ASA website says:

The Advertising Standards Authority is the UK’s independent regulator of advertising across all media.

Which implies web based adverts, although doesn't say so explicitly. Off to dig some more.

 

[Tim Hall]

And no sooner said than done:

What we cover

We deal with most types of ads but not all. If we can’t deal with your complaint ourselves, we will try to help you contact the right body.

The types of ads we deal with include:

• Magazine and newspaper advertisements
• Radio and TV commercials (not programmes or programme sponsorship)
• Television Shopping Channels
• Advertisements on the Internet, including:
  • banner and display ads
  • paid-for (sponsored) search
  • Marketing on companies’ own websites and in other space they control like social networking sites Twitter and Facebook
• Commercial e-mail and SMS text message ads
• Posters on legitimate poster sites (not fly posters)
• Leaflets and brochures
• Cinema commercials
• Advertising within smartphone and tablet apps
• Direct mail (advertising sent through the post and addressed to you personally)
• Door drops and circulars (advertising posted through the letter box without your name on)
• Ads on CD ROMs, DVD and video, and faxes
• Sales promotions, such as special offers, prize draws and competitions wherever they appear.

(my bold). Taken from https://www.asa.org.uk/Consumers/What-we-cover.aspx

 

[mjr]

Taken from https://www.asa.org.uk/Consumers/What-we-cover.aspx

Then you look at what they can do about it https://www.asa.org.uk/Industry-advertisers/Sanctions/Online.aspx

CAP can ask internet search websites to remove a marketer’s paid-for search advertisements when those advertisements link to a page on the marketer’s website that hosts non-compliant marketing communications.

Marketers may face adverse publicity if they cannot or will not amend non-compliant marketing communications on their own websites or in other non-paid-for space online under their control. Their name and non-compliance may be featured on a dedicated section of the ASA website and, if necessary, in an ASA advertisement appearing on an appropriate page of an internet search website.

...which is basically anything that you or I could do (and why I call it "rather weak"), but at least if ASA do it, we'd not be paying for the counter-adverts or any consequential threats of legal action.

 

[Fab Foodie]

An impromptu shopping basket? A mounting surface for a camera? Keeping the rain off a bit?

I'm thinking hanging baskets for the old ones in the garage ....

 

[mjr]

I'm thinking hanging baskets for the old ones in the garage ....

I've a growing collection (give us your tired, your poor, your weary helmets... ) which I'd like to test to destruction but I've still nothing really suitable. The US helmet fanatics like to use melons but melon skins are obviously much softer than skulls. I'm currently thinking about filling a suitably-sized small football with water or gel.

 

[ufkacbln]

Me

I've a growing collection (give us your tired, your poor, your weary helmets... ) which I'd like to test to destruction but I've still nothing really suitable. The US helmet fanatics like to use melons but melon skins are obviously much softer than skulls. I'm currently thinking about filling a suitably-sized small football with water or gel.

The MelonTest proves how essential melons are to cycling safety and how wearing one is common sense, essential if you care for your loved ones, don't want to end up as a vegetable etc

 

[ufkacbln]

Li

I've a growing collection (give us your tired, your poor, your weary helmets... ) which I'd like to test to destruction but I've still nothing really suitable. The US helmet fanatics like to use melons but melon skins are obviously much softer than skulls. I'm currently thinking about filling a suitably-sized small football with water or gel.

Like so much of the pro helmet propaganda there is little do do with evidence, science or reality

Melons are deliberately chosen because they are softer and can be made to fail

We once asked if anyone had ever done the obvious test of placing a melon inside a skull and dropping it from the same height as they had for the "naked" and helmets melons


Apparently that is very silly and would not help.. or more possibly because the skull would prove as effective as the helmet?

 

[ufkacbln]

Erm, that actually works. Some bird tried to eat my arm one night, thinking it was made of chocolate.

Let's put that one in the "helmet saved my life category....

A very very rare occurrence and you cannot demonstrate that there was any difference in the outcome that can be attributed to the intervention

 

[MontyVeda]

...
...possibly because the skull would prove as effective as the helmet?

can't argue with that... or Philomena.

 

[Absinthe Minded]

Let's put that one in the "helmet saved my life category....

A very very rare occurrence and you cannot demonstrate that there was any difference in the outcome that can be attributed to the intervention

Not true, she blew me out the night before.

 

[ufkacbln]