The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Justinslow]

Or Formula 1 drivers wearing different protective gear to Joe Bloggs in his Fiesta, after all they are both "drivers" in "cars".

Errr racing on closed circuits?
Not at all like cycling through the woods on your mtb.....

 

[Justinslow]

Sarcasm is no substitute for substantive debate. If you have nothing to offer, please have the decency to stop offering it.

If the evidence is so overwhelming that the helmet is useless why haven't the Australians thrown out the compulsory wearing law? Surely the government must be buckling under the weight of all the lobbying?

 

[martint235]

Errr racing on closed circuits?
Not at all like cycling through the woods on your mtb.....

You're not getting this are you? The equipment for MTBing even in your local woods is different than it is for your daily commute. Because the risks are different, the designs are different to mitigate those risks.

If you choose to commute in MTB gear, you'll find that the risks you face will be mitigated however there is an argument that you will have over-compensated for those risks. If you choose to MTB in commuting gear, don't be surprised if, as is the case on your commute, that equipment does nothing to mitigate the risks you face.

 

[mjr]

Errr racing on closed circuits?
Not at all like cycling through the woods on your mtb.....

I'm pretty sure the local MTBers ride on closed circuits in the forests that they maintain. I see the appeals for marshals and help maintaining and remodelling it on social networks sometimes. I guess there's racing and casual MTBing, like there's racing and casual cycling or driving... probably different body-armour needs for the different types.

 

[Justinslow]

You're not getting this are you? The equipment for MTBing even in your local woods is different than it is for your daily commute. Because the risks are different, the designs are different to mitigate those risks.

If you choose to commute in MTB gear, you'll find that the risks you face will be mitigated however there is an argument that you will have over-compensated for those risks. If you choose to MTB in commuting gear, don't be surprised if, as is the case on your commute, that equipment does nothing to mitigate the risks you face.

So it's a good idea to wear mtb helmets when mtb ing?

 

[srw]

In fairness to Justin, he's maybe the most reasonable of the evangalists I've come across. Mostly debates, and only occasionally descends to insults, and having called someone an arse myself upthread, I can't be too self-righteous. That said, not sure he's quite understood the key points.

And we shouldn't forget the concept of confirmation bias. It's well-evidenced by multiple studies. If evidence tends to support our viewpoint, we look for reasons to accept the evidence. If evidence tends to overturn our viewpoint, we look for reasons to reject the evidence.

 

[Hacienda71]

So it's a good idea to wear mtb helmets when mtb ing?

Adding a peak to the helmet makes all the difference.

 

[martint235]

So it's a good idea to wear mtb helmets when mtb ing?

If you're wearing one the helmets designed for and tested against MTB type scenarios then yes. In the same way it's a good idea to wear a motorcycle crash helmet when riding a motorcycle. These are pieces of equipment designed for a specific use and scientifically proven to be beneficial in that use.

 

[srw]

So it's a good idea to wear mtb helmets when mtb ing?

It's a good idea to make different risk assessments when you're doing different activities. That might result in different forms of risk mitigation being adopted.

 

[MontyVeda]

It's a good idea to make different risk assessments when you're doing different activities. That might result in different forms of risk mitigation being adopted.

A pal of mine wears his old caving helmet when cycling these days. He never used to wear a helmet and i suspect his partner might be the influence there. He questioned my choice of hat (it's just a hat) and asked if I'd ever fallen off my bike. "Yes, in fact i fell off in more or less the same place four times in as many weeks a few years ago." was my reply. He suggested in that case, maybe i should wear a helmet. I told him that I'd thought about why i kept falling off and put it down to speed. I now ride that section a lot slower and haven't fallen off since. To my tiny mind that solution to the problem is a lot more sensible and effective than wearing a different hat.

 

[Justinslow]

And we shouldn't forget the concept of confirmation bias. It's well-evidenced by multiple studies. If evidence tends to support our viewpoint, we look for reasons to accept the evidence. If evidence tends to overturn our viewpoint, we look for reasons to reject the evidence.

Yeah like my mate who had a crash and landed on his head and his helmet him avoid serious injury, yep exactly......

 

[martint235]

Yeah like my mate who had a crash and landed on his head and his helmet him avoid serious injury, yep exactly......

Really? We have to go back to square 1? Again? This version of Snakes and Ladders has way too many snakes obviously.

 

[Justinslow]

If you're wearing one the helmets designed for and tested against MTB type scenarios then yes. In the same way it's a good idea to wear a motorcycle crash helmet when riding a motorcycle. These are pieces of equipment designed for a specific use and scientifically proven to be beneficial in that use.

So general cycle helmets haven't been designed with cycling in mind? Ok ta.

 

[Justinslow]

Really? We have to go back to square 1? Again? This version of Snakes and Ladders has way too many snakes obviously.

Well it maybe explains my viewpoint and those of others.

 

[MontyVeda]

Yeah like my mate who had a crash and landed on his head and his helmet him avoid serious injury, yep exactly......

Your anecdote does not equate to evidence. It's about as much use as me saying "I fell of once and didn't hurt my head."