Team Sky, Brailsford and doping

[Flying_Monkey]

As an aside, Kittel was pretty unimpressed the other day by Tinkoff saying that Argos was full of unknown riders!

Yeah, I saw that. They are in a dogfight with A-S for the last World Tour place. And of course Rogers will add to the points total that SB-T are trying to accrue to make up for the fact that they can't count Contador's...

 

[rich p]

Yeah, I saw that. They are in a dogfight with A-S for the last World Tour place. And of course Rogers will add to the points total that SB-T are trying to accrue to make up for the fact that they can't count Contador's...

Good point - worth offering MR a fair bit of money for the points.

 

[andrew_s]

Yeah, I saw that. They are in a dogfight with A-S for the last World Tour place. And of course Rogers will add to the points total that SB-T are trying to accrue to make up for the fact that they can't count Contador's...

They won't be able to count Rogers' points either. It's points at the time of the World Tour application deadline that count.

 

[thom]

Roger's departure from Sky unrelated to internal doping investigation, say Sky.

"Michael was interviewed at the October training camp, like all riders, and there was no admission or disclosure that required him to leave,” the team statement said.
"He made the decision to join a new team with a new challenge after two years with us, and during that time there have been no doubts about his approach or success with us.
"We thank Michael for his work with Team Sky and wish him well for the next stage of his career."

 

[Viktor Chebrikov]

I'm not sure about that: Tinkoff Credit Systems is worth over 1 Billion. Oleg Tinkoff is one of those highly dubious Russian oligarchs with strong connections to Putin and the ruling elite.

Was more honourable when KGB ran things. USSR won more medals.

 

[thom]

Was more honourable when KGB ran things. USSR won more medals.

But the east germans were best on the track and the Peace race wasn't meaningful.....

 

[resal]

Roger's departure from Sky unrelated to internal doping investigation, say Sky.

"Michael was interviewed at the October training camp, like all riders, and there was no admission or disclosure that required him to leave,” the team statement said.
"He made the decision to join a new team with a new challenge after two years with us, and during that time there have been no doubts about his approach or success with us.
"We thank Michael for his work with Team Sky and wish him well for the next stage of his career."

I really have as much difficulty with this as I do with Brailsford's assurances that Yates retired on health grounds. I see on another site that Richard Moore is quoted as tweeting that Rogers was at the team meeting with the press some time before, as a fully integrated part of the set up for 2013. Rogers admits he worked with Ferrari, not because he wanted to come clean but because he was outed. He then asks us to believe him when he states it was for physical coaching advice only.

I don't mind being lied to by a rider who won three World titles during the time when the PED arms race was reaching heights that were leagues beyond that could be dreamed of, only a generation before.

I don't mind being lied to by the manger of a team of dodgy pros that look like they care less about the fans or the sport than the paper hanging on the roll in the smallest room.

I do have a great deal of difficulty with the National Team manager of my Lottery funded home nation, who is paid enough out of the public purse so that he can afford to have the morals that will enable him to turn away from such robbery, trying to tell me things which I can not discriminate from to the nonsense I have heard over the last 20 years.

 

[rich p]

You could read and impute from Brailsford's statement that Rogers admitted nothing, signed nothing and said that he'd rather just leave the team. No admission of guilt as such.

 

[Noodley]

My interpretation of the Sky statement is:

"Rogers admitted nothing, in line with Omerta. What else did you expect? He has now decided to feck off and join a team that continues to support doping. He can feck off as far as we are concerned, and we'll do everything in our power to make sure he is made to suffer every time we ride."

 

[thom]

Can I just check again, does anybody have anything more on Rogers other than the "training plans" he obtained from Ferrari when Ferrari wasn't banned and for which he paid not really that much when it comes to monies Ferrari received?
Am I missing something factual ?

In addition, if you think the suspicion/evidence surrounding Rogers condemns him, what now is your position regarding this thread's original subject, which is to debate the possibility that Sky may be engaged in doping ?
Do you think for example, that surrounding Rogers' abuses, there may be evidence that Sky cannot control that may come to light and this is why they are keen to be rid of him ?

 

[rich p]

From what Leipheimer said, it wasn't just training plans but repeated visits to Ferrari training camps. Circumstantial evidence only but together with the timing of the move to Team 60% Riis it could add up.

 

[thom]

From what Leipheimer said, it wasn't just training plans but repeated visits to Ferrari training camps. Circumstantial evidence only but together with the timing of the move to Team 60% Riis it could add up.

Thanks for clarifying rich. I think it's too unclear not to state opinions on this without caveats. It is clear Saxo-Tinkoff has cash and needs good riders. Sky pay well but not stupid amounts. Rogers' contract was up for renegotiation. Who's to say Sky didn't make a call on the likely deterioration in his physiology and decide it would not make sense to match a strong Saxo-Tinkoff offer ?

 

[rich p]

Of course, Thom, money talks and that could be it, but it doesn't seem to add up to me, unless you include me making 2 and 2 equalling 5
Rather than deteriorating, his form was better than for years at Sky and with better results. He was well-regarded by Wiggins as the road captain in the TdF. Maybe this encouraged Tinkoff to offer better money but I would have thought that he'd have been a better fit at Sky in his dotage unless their was more to it. But who knows.
Apart from Brailsford and Rogers and they're not likely to fess up.

 

[thom]

Of course, Thom, money talks and that could be it, but it doesn't seem to add up to me, unless you include me making 2 and 2 equalling 5
Rather than deteriorating, his form was better than for years at Sky and with better results. He was well-regarded by Wiggins as the road captain in the TdF. Maybe this encouraged Tinkoff to offer better money but I would have thought that he'd have been a better fit at Sky in his dotage unless their was more to it. But who knows.
Apart from Brailsford and Rogers and they're not likely to fess up.

I agree the move doesn't look entirely normal but at the same time, I can imagine there is a lot that goes on in pro-cycling that is completely normal and which I have no conception of. I'm just a fan watching on TV.

I'm keen to understand the extent of the evidence though, really because I don't like doping riders and I think it is clear I try to share info I see. Thanks for pointing out what Leipheimer alleges.

There are a couple of things people have stated that in the spirit of sharing, it would be good to elaborate on out of respect for everyone that reads this forum.

 

[rich p]

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Leipheimer,+Levi,+Affidavit.pdf

I posted this a couple of months ago but Leipheimer mentions Rogers in no. 68 and 69. No smoking gun but the other names in that list are pretty unsavoury...
...Salvoldelli, Popovych, Mazzoleni, Kashechkin, Vino and Levi himself. It could be that MR was the only clean one there and didn't discuss EPO with Schumi but...