Team BKool CycleChat

[Brusgaard]

That's worrying - I was thinking it was just my Ant+ dongle playing up so I am going to order a new one, but if it's a Bkool problem that's going to be a right pain!

Try running the BKool computer with cabled network and disable bluetooth+wifi on the laptop. The different wireless signals are known to affect each other as they use the same 2.4GHz spectrum. My 2.4Ghz wireless keyboard works fine when Bsim is not running, but starts acting silly when in BSim. And yes I have an extension cable going from the computer down to the trainer with the ANT+ stick.

 

[bridgy]

I think the way Bkool calculates power has too many variables and poor algorithms. Changing a tyre can give a 50+ Watt increase in performance! that for starters is ridiculous.
There is smoothing of the profile, because if you think about it, it has to calculate power, so needs speed, weight and gradient ,everything is in lag working out what just happened, unlike when it has a power figure, the profile is much sharper in the peak and troughs It doesn't have a speed sensor or cadence. You can huge blips in power just by changing gear but keeping same speed.

If they would only make a turbo with a power meter, or accept power meter coupled to the trainer. You then have a figure which directly relates to pressure on pedals and speed of pedals.

I've always thought this about the tyre variable - surely how accurate an individual finds Bkool watts to be will depend very much on how similar their tyre setup (tyre type/width/pressure) is to the one Bkool used to set the original algorithm? This tyre factor will also make it difficult to get consistent results between direct drive trainers fitted with power meters and Bkool trainers. And yet Zwift appear to do a much better job of resolving this problem by all accounts?

As is always the case there's zero information from Bkool on how they made their initial calculations, but Zwift, who are much more open and customer focussed have provided quite a lot of info on how they calculate power algorithms for various trainers - there's a blog from them about it here - http://zwiftblog.com/virtual-power/

I notice though that Zwift seem to include Bkool Pro trainers with smart trainers that broadcast power, even though the Pro doesn't actually have a power meter - anyone know how they actually calculate speed from a Bkool Pro trainer on Zwift?

 

[bridgy]

Try running the BKool computer with cabled network and disable bluetooth+wifi on the laptop. The different wireless signals are known to affect each other as they use the same 2.4GHz spectrum. My 2.4Ghz wireless keyboard works fine when Bsim is not running, but starts acting silly when in BSim. And yes I have an extension cable going from the computer down to the trainer with the ANT+ stick.

Thanks for the advice. Thing is I've been running Bkool in the same way for 18 months (laptop via WiFi and ant+ dongle without extension cable) and never had a problem like this before - odd that it should suddenly become an issue?

 

[Daddy Pig]

I think the way Bkool calculates power has too many variables and poor algorithms. Changing a tyre can give a 50+ Watt increase in performance! that for starters is ridiculous.
There is smoothing of the profile, because if you think about it, it has to calculate power, so needs speed, weight and gradient ,everything is in lag working out what just happened, unlike when it has a power figure, the profile is much sharper in the peak and troughs It doesn't have a speed sensor or cadence. You can huge blips in power just by changing gear but keeping same speed.

If they would only make a turbo with a power meter, or accept power meter coupled to the trainer. You then have a figure which directly relates to pressure on pedals and speed of pedals.

The problem is that bkool have made the decision to base power on those other variables, rather than a trainer with built in power meter. It will never be accurate and should only be considered as an amateurs recreational plaything although one which is a lot of fun, which is why I'm happy to stay with it, even with all the issues although somewhat annoying.

 

[bridgy]

Try running the BKool computer with cabled network and disable bluetooth+wifi on the laptop. The different wireless signals are known to affect each other as they use the same 2.4GHz spectrum. My 2.4Ghz wireless keyboard works fine when Bsim is not running, but starts acting silly when in BSim. And yes I have an extension cable going from the computer down to the trainer with the ANT+ stick.

Actually I've just realised one thing that is different - I've recently started using wireless earphones connected to my phone via bluetooth. I wonder if this could be affecting the signal...

 

[Daddy Pig]

Yep, I mentioned that one on the Bkool English - Spiuk Challenge event page as well. Both 1st and 2nd place on stage 8 is not valid, and the fitness level for David/Alex Rawson at place 39 is way off too. Beating me with a 214watt effort, and weighing about 25kg more, doesn't make sense either, except if it was a downhill race.

Just throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, what about some of Pep's rides as it seems he gets periods of high watts at the same level as though he has lost connection... not that I've got anything against him! (I would just like to be ahead on at least one wc stage!)

 

[Bored Man]

The problem is that bkool have made the decision to base power on those other variables, rather than a trainer with built in power meter. It will never be accurate and should only be considered as an amateurs recreational plaything although one which is a lot of fun, which is why I'm happy to stay with it, even with all the issues although somewhat annoying.

I concur Father Pork.

 

[Daddy Pig]

Actually I've just realised one thing that is different - I've recently started using wireless earphones connected to my phone via bluetooth. I wonder if this could be affecting the signal...

I believe a test is in order to see if that is the issue (can you let me know as I need to order some for the race next week!)

 

[MasterDabber]

Actually I've just realised one thing that is different - I've recently started using wireless earphones connected to my phone via bluetooth. I wonder if this could be affecting the signal...

I use my wireless headphone connected to my iphone via bluetooth regularly with both BigRingVR and VeloReality with no problems at all. I don't use Bkool that often and can't remember if I've used the headphones much with it... I'll check next time I use Bkool... this is with a Pro btw.

 

[bridgy]

I believe a test is in order to see if that is the issue (can you let me know as I need to order some for the race next week!)

Yeah it'll be annoying if that is the issue as bluetooth was going to be the plan for communicating in the Nations Cup! Also, I like my bluetooth headphones!

I will try again but keeping the phone away from the laptop - I had the phone actually sat on the laptop last night.

 

[Brusgaard]

Actually I've just realised one thing that is different - I've recently started using wireless earphones connected to my phone via bluetooth. I wonder if this could be affecting the signal...

Worth a try. Updating my Pro trainer firmware for instance didn't succeed, until I put it right next to my other computer, which uses cabled mouse, keyboard and network etc., and 5 meters away from the nearest wifi-router.

 

[CXRAndy]

I've always thought this about the tyre variable - surely how accurate an individual finds Bkool watts to be will depend very much on how similar their tyre setup (tyre type/width/pressure) is to the one Bkool used to set the original algorithm? This tyre factor will also make it difficult to get consistent results between direct drive trainers fitted with power meters and Bkool trainers. And yet Zwift appear to do a much better job of resolving this problem by all accounts?

As is always the case there's zero information from Bkool on how they made their initial calculations, but Zwift, who are much more open and customer focussed have provided quite a lot of info on how they calculate power algorithms for various trainers - there's a blog from them about it here - http://zwiftblog.com/virtual-power/

I notice though that Zwift seem to include Bkool Pro trainers with smart trainers that broadcast power, even though the Pro doesn't actually have a power meter - anyone know how they actually calculate speed from a Bkool Pro trainer on Zwift?

Zwift has probably bought a Bkool Pro, tested it and created a power profile, it then can implement.

 

[bobinski]

Yeah it'll be annoying if that is the issue as bluetooth was going to be the plan for communicating in the Nations Cup! Also, I like my bluetooth headphones!

I will try again but keeping the phone away from the laptop - I had the phone actually sat on the laptop last night.

If i come from zwift where i use bluetooth to connect with the Neo then bkool wont see my Ant connection. So i have to turn off bluetooth and then it picks the Neo up fine. I thought this was specific to the Neo but suggests BT may be an issue .

Zwift has probably bought a Bkool Pro, tested it and created a power profile, it then can implement.

I am pretty sure I recall that being said on Zwift forum.

 

[Daddy Pig]

Zwift has probably bought a Bkool Pro, tested it and created a power profile, it then can implement.

It would be interesting to see what the power output would be on zwift and compare to bkool.

 

[bridgy]

Zwift has probably bought a Bkool Pro, tested it and created a power profile, it then can implement.

But isn't that how Zwift do "classic" non-smart trainers, and call their made up power figure "Z-Power"?

It looks to me like Bkool pros are lumped in with other smart trainers with power meters, suggesting they are the power source, and are broadcasting this power to Zwift via ant+ FE-C which is what's confusing me. Could it be that the Bkool trainer is doing it's power calculation internally - so deciding what power is required to make the roller turn at a particular speed when a particular amount of resistance is being applied - and broadcasting this?