Team BKool CycleChat

[gbrown]

What makes me laugh is that they don't even get the date right.

It is the 5th today, in Spain as well as here.

Your Mountain Goats stage 1 was until the 4th, but is still showing as the active session, and the stage 2 was set to start on the 5th but hasn't started yet.

I seem to remember that they start about 10 pm in the evening, so just about after the day has ended. So in reality you need to schedule everything a day earlier than you want, and just accept that the last 2 hours will be lost.

Shame, I was thinking of giving Mont Ventoux a first run with enough time to recover before Thursday!

Geoff

 

[BILL S]

And they use you present power output to tell you how long until the end of your ride so it fluctuates wildly. It should be more a function of average power to give a better reading.

Anyway, Thursday night looks to be fun with the velodrome first then Salcombe hill. We should be all warmed up nicely for the hill. One tip I can give everyone for salcombe is top gear start on the big ring then as resistance builds get ready to change down fast. The second time I tried it I made a better start so beat my previous time up the hill even though I made less average power.

As for Mt Ventoux, I've never tried it but just took a look at the slope and it looks to be pretty long and steep. Looks like a good one.

 

[lintax]

Could someone explain to me the difference between doing runs by distance or by time?

//Linus

 

[gbrown]

Could someone explain to me the difference between doing runs by distance or by time?

//Linus

When a course is setup it has an associated distance (e.g. so many laps, a GPS trace of a certain length), and sometimes an associated time (e.g. 20 minutes of laps or a GPS trace that took 30 minutes that particular time).

Usually you would want to ride by distance, so your 10 mile ride is 10 miles, and if you ride it quick or slow it takes the relevant amount of time. This is how most "courses" would likely be done.

If a video is associated with a route done by distance, the video will speed up and slow down to match the speed you are cycling, and will get to the end the same time you do.

However, sometimes you would rather cycle for a specified time, no matter how much or little distance is covered, for example if you are doing interval training or some other pre-defined exercise such as pedal flat out for 5 minutes, then rest for 20 minutes, then repeat. For example, you can create manual sessions by time, with a specified amount of time at a specified gradient, very useful for interval training.

So if you want to ride "intervals" like this, you can choose to ride by time, and it is a case of how much distance can you cover in the prescribed time (e.g. how many laps of the velodrome in 20 minutes).

If a video is associated with a route done by time, it will not speed up or slow down to match you, it will just play for the specified time, and you may cover more or less than the mileage originally associated with the session. Therefore the video will not be synched to your riding, or represent where you are on the course (you may be far past the end of the video).

Generally schedule "Routes" by distance (especially with video), and "Intervals" or interval training by time.

One word of warning, if you do a session by time, you cannot export it to a .fit file for importing into Strava, etc. It gives a message that "interval sessions" cannot currently be exported.

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[johnny2names]

Phew, thanks for all that.

The 10 mph figures seem pretty consistent between riders, but around 20% higher than most power/speed calculation assume (36W)
The higher figures are very hard to pin down, due to this saw tooth profile you mention, which I also get. Power rises and rises even though speed, and presumably drag, etc. are steady, for over a minute. It would be interesting to understand the algorithm Bkool use and therefore the assumptions they factor in. Since my Powertap reliably shows the same affect (with lower figures) I guess the resistance must be changing, and since there is no drag, and speed is constant, it can only be the resistance that the Bkool trainer applies, perhaps something to do with the electromagnets?

I should have picked 25 mph, 30 mph is a bit of an ask! I checked the power/speed figures out with default weights, drag, etc. and no way could I sustain 30mph on a flat road, never mind reach 40 mph, as that needs well over 1,000W, so at the high end it seems clear the Bkool is struggling to simulate the real resistance that would be experienced. I guess this is also true of very steep gradients, so Col de la Madeleine is probably much harder in real life (gulp). Think I'll wait for a howling tail-wind if I ever give any of these alpine climbs a go in reality!

I would guess a velodrome has much lower rolling resistance, as the flooring is chosen for much different reasons to a tarmac road. I suppose they may also assume a different bike is used, with lower aero drag, as is usually the case on a velodrome (no brakes, TT bars)? I'll try my test out in the velodrome, having first disabled the bots!

This is the Saw Tooth effect I get at higher speeds (not at 10mph) - (Y-Axis) yellow is power, green is speed, (X-Axis) time in minutes...

10 mph - no saw tooth

View attachment 76073

20 mph - power keeps rising for around 1 minute before flattening out

View attachment 76074

30 mph - power keeps rising for over a minute, before I ran out of energy!

View attachment 76075

On the trainer Salcombe is a lovely interval for power training. In reality it is deeply scary at c.20% for most of the last half mile and I did exactly as you said, crawled up it at 4 mph with my heart rate right at my max (185) and the front wheel lifting off the ground due to the torque required to keep the 34-28 gear turn over. Would be much better to use a 30 or 32 and get a little more cadence. One for the lightweights, I think. I intend to try it again as soon as the weather improves, and get a video up on the site. Also the climb out the other side of Sidmouth to Peak Hill, which is the same 20% but even scarier due to the amount of traffic!

Having become slightly obsessed with this, I was thinking about it while trying to get to sleep last night, and have a few things to try on setting up the Powertap, which might explain the discrepancies.

Geoff

have a look at my speed/power file from bkool website for my velodrome session. Please note that my power output suffered instant falls during constant effort, so my saw tooths are similar to yours in terms of gradually rising power at constant speed, but then differ wildly due to a sudden drop in power for no change in effort or speed, which then slowly climbs back to previous maxima, before dropping again. Very, very strange! It's also very strange that you get the same on your power taps. Personally I don't feel a difference in difficulty or change of effort whilst holding constant speed, other than increasingly struggling to hold the effort- but that doesn't represent an increase in power output!! very strange...

 

[camerauk]

Just done the Puerto Mijares stage in Mountain Goats and its not showing me in the table have looked and there is an X next to the expected weight anyway to correct this?
I will definitely be bringing up the rear on that climb, not been well over Xmas but thought I had best get back on the bike again it was a struggle to say the least lol and also got a nasty pain in my left knee about halfway up but managed to preserver

 

[johnny2names]

gbrown said: 'On the trainer Salcombe is a lovely interval for power training. In reality it is deeply scary at c.20% for most of the last half mile and I did exactly as you said, crawled up it at 4 mph with my heart rate right at my max (185) and the front wheel lifting off the ground due to the torque required to keep the 34-28 gear turn over. Would be much better to use a 30 or 32 and get a little more cadence. One for the lightweights, I think. I intend to try it again as soon as the weather improves, and get a video up on the site. Also the climb out the other side of Sidmouth to Peak Hill, which is the same 20% but even scarier due to the amount of traffic!'

definitely too easy on the turbo compared to real life- I don't have anything as steep locally, but have something that averages 10%+ for 1k+ I've done a few times, with sustained 15% sections- a proper 'pain cave climb'.
today I don't think I dropped below 10 kph, even on 20% gradient. I'd be down to 6 kph in real life!!
Geoff, I changed my cassette to a 12-30 last spring in anticipation of doing the etape- well worth having, for exactly the reason you mention- being able to hold a higher cadence at low speed on steep gradients. No probs installing on my standard 105 groupset (50/34 compact)- although had to put an ultegra 12-30 as couldnt find an equiv. 105 anywhere! saved about 7.3 grams too, changed my world that
Having done the tourmalet, all I can tell you is that it's hard, it's painful, but it's perfectly doable- you just ride slower, trying hard to stay out of the red!

 

[gbrown]

have a look at my speed/power file from bkool website for my velodrome session. Please note that my power output suffered instant falls during constant effort, so my saw tooths are similar to yours in terms of gradually rising power at constant speed, but then differ wildly due to a sudden drop in power for no change in effort or speed, which then slowly climbs back to previous maxima, before dropping again. Very, very strange! It's also very strange that you get the same on your power taps. Personally I don't feel a difference in difficulty or change of effort whilst holding constant speed, other than increasingly struggling to hold the effort- but that doesn't represent an increase in power output!! very strange...

View attachment 76114

Looks very strange indeed.

Is this only happening in the Velodrome?

It did occur to me that it might be to do with the banking, as at the end of each straight the curve is quite heavily banked and would form a climb then a drop and then back to the flat section down each side of the track.

Geoff

 

[johnny2names]

Looks very strange indeed.

Is this only happening in the Velodrome?

It did occur to me that it might be to do with the banking, as at the end of each straight the curve is quite heavily banked and would form a climb then a drop and then back to the flat section down each side of the track.

Geoff

it's more obvious in veodrome, but also happened on the road- I was more conscious of it in velo ( as had already done the road test) and focused on it more, plus I was more able to hold the high speeds for longer. defo not the banking, as the distances of steady rise were more like 1k than 100m. no scale shown, but that graph represents just over 5k of riding.

 

[gbrown]

Hello folks, newbie to the forums here, excited to find an active UK bunch of BKool users. I've had the "classic" (I think that's polite for "old"?) trainer for a year or so but haven't been great at using it...

I'd love to take part in some of your rides. Unfortunately I think I'll struggle with joining the Thursday night group ride as I'm already double-booked those nights, but I'll do my best to catch up at other times. I'd also like a chance to join the Mountain Goats if that was acceptable?

If so, how can I go about joining? Do I just submit a request to the league(s) from BKool's site?

Cheers and Happy New Year,
Simon

HI Simon,

I see you joined the Thursday night league, I'm afraid you just missed Stage 1, Stage 2 is a Velodrome session on Thursday, followed by a short sharp climb from the 100 Greatest Cycling Climbs.

If you can't make it on the night, you have all week to do the climb, but the Velodrome sessions don't show up in the league so it's just for fun!

Geoff

 

[Add]

HI Simon,

I see you joined the Thursday night league, I'm afraid you just missed Stage 1, Stage 2 is a Velodrome session on Thursday, followed by a short sharp climb from the 100 Greatest Cycling Climbs.

If you can't make it on the night, you have all week to do the climb, but the Velodrome sessions don't show up in the league so it's just for fun!

Geoff

FUN?!? Have I missed something? If there was one word I would definately not use to describe my last thursday night league Velo run, it would be "fun"! I thought I was going to die! Only this time....you then want me to ride up Salcombe bloody hill straight after?!? Try the word "exhausting" or even "deadly"! It's possibly fun, about an hour later!

 

[BILL S]

Just done the Puerto Mijares stage in Mountain Goats and its not showing me in the table have looked and there is an X next to the expected weight anyway to correct this?
I will definitely be bringing up the rear on that climb, not been well over Xmas but thought I had best get back on the bike again it was a struggle to say the least lol and also got a nasty pain in my left knee about halfway up but managed to preserver

Well done for the last minute ride Camerauk. Your ride is now in the results. I've got no idea why that X was there because I set the parameters up to accept weight changes. Another bkool glitch no doubt.

 

[camerauk]

Thanks Bill

 

[soterios]

Hey guys,

So my new Pro trainer turns up today... i noticed the box seal is open but didn't think anything of it.

I have now unpacked it and found a light rattle inside, i shuck it and a small piece of plastic falls out. I then looked round the unit and see that the side of it is not in correctly in and also there are marks on the unit... i decided to put it on just to try and a buzzing is coming from it and its so so loud?

Anyone else had issues with the trainer like this? its almost like i have ordered a brand new one and given a second hand one? ive sent a email in see what happens.

 

[wheely]

Evening all. Had my first ride on the trainer this evening and was so excited I didn't check my tyre pressure, felt like I was trying to push through mud. Tyre inflated did the FTP test to get my base line ..... Amateur 1 it is then. Only way is up but I supose that is why I got the trainer in the first place!

I intend to try and do some interval training to get fitter and thought it might help to have short periods of climb when I'm doing the 'on' part of the interval. Question: is there a way of setting up a climb, say 2* every thirty seconds or so OR should I do the this type of training in the velodrome and use my gears to up the anti?

Also, it seems that the bkool zones think my heart can get up to 188 bpm but I'm pretty sure my max is 176. Is there anywhere I can manually input my max so it can work out my zones better?

I don't understand all this power, saw tooth residence stuff yet so I'll leave all those questions for another day