Speeding cyclist and Highway Code Rule 69

[mjr]

For a bike, the law would have to try and make something other than exceeding a speed limit apply. The defence that you couldn't tell what speed you were doing would hold, if the speed was inappropriate for the conditions, it doesn't matter so much, what that speed was.

Ignorance of your speed wouldn't be a defence, if there was such an offence.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

That there is no such law broken or to be prosecuted under would be a defence though

 

[Tim Hall]

True, but in the few exceptional places in the UK where such an offence does exist, and in other countries where such offences exist, absence of speedometers is not a barrier to prosecution.

The point being made is: The fact that bikes aren't required by law to have speedometers is irrelevant to the discussion of speed limits. I don't understand why it crops up again and again.

Because this is The Internets.

 

[mjr]

Because this is The Internets.

And it's the 8779th day of September 1993.

 

[jarlrmai]

True, but in the few exceptional places in the UK where such an offence does exist, and in other countries where such offences exist, absence of speedometers is not a barrier to prosecution.

The point being made is: The fact that bikes aren't required by law to have speedometers is irrelevant to the discussion of speed limits. I don't understand why it crops up again and again.

It crops up because some anti cycling people like to muddy the waters about the legality of cycling on the roads as a classic distraction technique and here we are 6 pages later.

On our local plod Facebook group they posted about how now it's "getting darker cyclists should be wearing lights and have reflectors" 3 replies later there's some mutual appreciation bubble about the guy that says that cops should be out enforcing this and arresting cyclists that don't have reflectors rather than "wasting time with speed cameras and taxing the poor victimised motorists" (of course HE doesn't speed though)

 

[Racing roadkill]

True, but in the few exceptional places in the UK where such an offence does exist, and in other countries where such offences exist, absence of speedometers is not a barrier to prosecution.

The point being made is: The fact that bikes aren't required by law to have speedometers is irrelevant to the discussion of speed limits. I don't understand why it crops up again and again.

It crops up again and again because you can't be had for exceeding a speed you can't gauge.

 

[Tim Hall]

It crops up again and again because you can't be had for exceeding a speed you can't gauge.

No. No. No. You can't be had for transgressing a law which doesn't apply to you. The law (Road Traffic Regulation Act) refers to "motor vehicle" which a bike is not. It's nothing to do with being able to gauge the speed.

 

[mjr]

No. No. No. You can't be had for transgressing a law which doesn't apply to you. The law (Road Traffic Regulation Act) refers to "motor vehicle" which a bike is not. It's nothing to do with being able to gauge the speed.

It might be that the speed limit clause refers to "motor vehicle" and bikes weren't included by our esteemed legislators because they don't have speedos, but I'm sure someone will point at the relevant bit in Hansard or whatever to prove it, if that's the case

As I think someone mentioned, you can't get out of breaching the alcohol limit for driving simply by pointing out that you had no way to gauge it.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Really? Why do you think motor vehicles have to have speedometers - and those speedometers have to be accurate within certain tolerances?

Speedometers are not irrelevant to discussions of speed limits.

Not all motor vehicles require a speedo. Their drivers would still not have a defence to speeding.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Those motor vehicles excluded from the requirement to have a speedo were those not capable of reaching the lowest speed limit - 30 mph at the time the legislation was passed.

Not quite.
My brother's 1970s Suzuki AP100 falls within the category of pre-1984 motorcycles not exceeding 100cc capacity which don't require a speedo. It is easily capable of 60mph (well, I say easily...)

Here's a picture of a nice one

 

[Ming the Merciless]

True, but in the few exceptional places in the UK where such an offence does exist, and in other countries where such offences exist, absence of speedometers is not a barrier to prosecution.

The point being made is: The fact that bikes aren't required by law to have speedometers is irrelevant to the discussion of speed limits. I don't understand why it crops up again and again.

Well if you will bring it up. I said nothing about speedos I said there was no such speeding law for pedal bikes.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

You're talking about pre-legislation vehicles - I'm talking about post.

It doesn't matter whether it's pre or post the 1986 Regs, the point is that :

1. there is a class of motor vehicle capable of exceeding 30mph which doesn't need a speedometer fitted

and

2. the absence of a speedometer on that vehicle would not protect its rider from a speeding charge.

 

[Racing roadkill]

Nonsense.
Other countries with speed limits that apply to bicycles don't have a problem (eg Germany).

Let's imagine, for a moment, that the law was changed to extend speed limits to bicycles right now.

A rider is captured by a speed trap exceeding the limit. They claim that because the government didn't force them to have a speedometer they can't possibly have known their speed. What an idiotic idea. One may as well claim that you can't be prosecuted for having blood alcohol over the legal limit because alcohol meters aren't a legal requirement.

Would such a law be unjust or represent a serious curtailment of cyclists' freedoms? Not at all. Would it be a ridiculous waste of time and resources in addressing a non-problem? Yes it would.

They wouldn't be able to get you for the offence of exceeding the speed limit, they'd have to make it one of the offences related to appropriateness of the speed / and or manner in which you were riding. For example, you couldn't get an SP30 riding a bike, you haven't got a licence to endorse, and you can't be had for exceeding a speed you can't gauge.

 

[Tim Hall]

I give up.

Can I give up too? It's been that kind of a day.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I gave up long ago.