SMIDSY by a copper tonight

[RecordAceFromNew]

Had an off-duty copper ran into the back of my car when I stopped at a red light one evening... Glad you are ok.

Would be very surprised no damage at all on a new bike, given your condition, worth checking thoroughly.

 

[benborp]

Would be very surprised no damage at all on a new bike, given your condition, worth checking thoroughly.

I dunno. I've been clipped while on a new bike on a couple of occasions. I seemed to have instinctively made sure that I got to the tarmac before the bike. I have a very clear image of sliding down the A200 on my arse while holding my brand new Cannondale in the air.

Heal soon Ian and I'm glad the bike made it.

 

[Keith Oates]

Sorry to hear about the accident Ian, but glad that you and the bike are OK. I had a coming together with a motorbike on Monday which resulted in me viewing the world from the ground up but like you no damage to bike or me, thank goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[benb]

I dunno. I've been clipped while on a new bike on a couple of occasions. I seemed to have instinctively made sure that I got to the tarmac before the bike. I have a very clear image of sliding down the A200 on my arse while holding my brand new Cannondale in the air.

Heal soon Ian and I'm glad the bike made it.

Well it's important to have priorities.

 

[Cubist]

That's why you get this pro forma nonsense:
"Sir, have you been drinking this evening?"
"I had one beer about 4 hours ago"
"Sir, you admit you have been drinking and I can smell alcohol on your breath**. Please provide a breath sample"

(I was a witness to this, and of course the test came up negative. It was obviously a script create to allow them to breath test without justification. I prefer the Australian system where all drivers are required to submit to a breath test at any time. The fact that there may be a road block on your way home makes you think very carefully about that last drink)

** No you can't, you liar.

The fact that the driver has said "I had one beer about four hours ago" is sufficient suspicion in its own right. In your scenario the test is perfectly justified.

 

[Cubist]

it is not a legal require to give any breathe test....

I take it you mean if you are riding a pedal cycle?

 

[Cubist]

you have a right to refuse any testing of anything unless they can prove you have committed an offence - this is the mainstay of lawyers who "get people off". If their evidence is not "worthy" then they have no reason to ask for a "sample" whether it be breathe, pee or blood. But....the reason most people get done is that they actually have been committing an offence (mostly speeding) and the bobbies have evidence...i.e. camera evidence, which allows them to take a breathe test etc....
If you are in an accident and there is evidence of being involved in the cause of it then that is enough...

Again folks - everything is EVIDENCE based......no can I go to sleep please?
ZZZZZzzzzzzz

Wrong I'm afraid.

TYou may want to read this before you offer any more legal advice.
What is my legal obligation?
The Police can lawfully require a person to provide a specimen of blood, breath or urine "in the course of an investigation as to whether a person has committed the offences of being in charge/driving or attempting to drive whilst unfit, or driving/attempting to drive with excess alcohol.

Essentially, if the Police think that you have consumed alcohol, or are under the influence, they are entitled to obtain evidence. Given that the only way they can obtain that evidence is to take a breath, blood or urine sample, a refusal to provide such a specimen would clearly prevent them from proving their case, so that refusal is a further offence.

Do I have to be arrested for a drink driving offence before I am obliged to give a specimen?
No.

What if I told the Police that I was not driving but they refused to believe me so I refused to give a specimen?
You can still be convicted. The Police have the right to request the specimen based on a suspicion of whether you were driving. It is not critical to the offence that their is suspicion is correct. Your refusal to give a specimen on the basis that you do not believe the request is justified is an offence.

What if I am willing to provide a specimen, but fail to do so despite my best efforts?
Your obligation is to provide a specimen that can be used for analysis. If, for example, the specimen of urine supplied is so minute it cannot be analysed, the offence is committed, regardless of any intention on your part.

What if the breath measuring machine simply failed to register when I blew into it?
On the basis that the machine is shown to be working correctly and the correct process for using it was followed, you can be convicted. It is for the Defendant to show that any technical problem was not of his making.

When I was initially asked to give a breath test, I refused but having thought about it, I came to my senses, I was then willing to do so. The Police refused to take a subsequent breath test and I have been charged, what are my rights?
You can be charged and convicted even if you change your mind. The issues are the state of mind at the time of refusal. If it is clear that you were capable of making the decision but simply refused to co-operate, even if you then offer to provide a specimen a minute or so later, the offence can be established.

What if when asked to supply a specimen I did not refuse but simply did not respond?
You can be convicted. The Court will conclude that you should appreciate you will have to co-operate in order to provide a specimen and by doing nothing, you have not co-operated.

 

[Silver Fox]

Hope the bumps and bruises aren't too bad this morning Ian. Sounds like the bobby messed up on this one and you'll have a valid claim should you wish to pursue it further.

 

[benb]

The others seem reasonable, but this one seems harsh, if they are after a urine sample.

What if I am willing to provide a specimen, but fail to do so despite my best efforts?
Your obligation is to provide a specimen that can be used for analysis. If, for example, the specimen of urine supplied is so minute it cannot be analysed, the offence is committed, regardless of any intention on your part.

 

[Alun]

What if I am willing to provide a specimen, but fail to do so despite my best efforts?
Your obligation is to provide a specimen that can be used for analysis. If, for example, the specimen of urine supplied is so minute it cannot be analysed, the offence is committed, regardless of any intention on your part.

I would have thought this one was unlikely after 6 pints of lager !

 

[martint235]

Hope the cuts heal soon. More than happy to pick the bike up and check it out with some proper A2 commuting, just to make sure it's ok.

I reckon it's one of Gordon Brown's mates.

 

[Silver Fox]

The others seem reasonable, but this one seems harsh, if they are after a urine sample.

What if I am willing to provide a specimen, but fail to do so despite my best efforts?​

Your obligation is to provide a specimen that can be used for analysis. If, for example, the specimen of urine supplied is so minute it cannot be analysed, the offence is committed, regardless of any intention on your part.​

People will try all sorts to evade a prosecution for drink / drug driving.

There was a recent case involving a bloke who, having supplied his urine samples had been left unattended in the police surgeons room. He tampered with one of the samples by replacing it with tap water and stole the other.

He was charged with taking the piss.

 

[Andrew_P]

Wow Hope you a feeling well enough to get back on the bike this morning, I do not think there was anything sinister in the breath test following protocol and in someways it is good as it is removed from anything they say. The independent witness is a real asset, but most of all great news that nothing including the bike was broken.

What happens next in the cold light of the following day are you going to pursue for any PI or just want to see how it naturally pans out.

I am guessing it is a lot more painful now the adrenaline and endorphines have worn off?!

 

[DCLane]

Hope you're feeling less battered this morning.

 

[ianrauk]

Cycled to work today. All fine except for some aches and pains. I have bruised cheek where I face planted, elbow, cut knee and bruised ribs (again ffs). The bike is totally fine too apart from the rear gears slightly skipping which is easy fixed. But am amazed that there is no damage. As I said, not even a scratch.

Popped into the shop of the witness and thanked him for his help last night. He was glad to see me this morning and that I was ok. Said that if I am going to take it further he is happy to help me out. What he did say was that it was lucky there was no traffic coming from the other direction as the van knocked me into the other lane.

So thanks for all the best wishes folks. Much appreciated.

As to the breath test.
I'm not fussed whether it's legal or not.
I saw them test the cop too and it covers my back.

And I have a nice breath test tube as a souvenir...

As to whether I am going to take it further...? Probably not.