Six Nations 2016

[GrumpyGregry]

That's wendyball innit .

The citing after the match even if the ref has dealt with one has been in for a loooong time .

except if the ref has issued an RC. No citing can follow that unless the RC was issued as a result of a second YC.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Didn't have a problem with what Brown did personally. Trying to kick through and Murray got caught....

Even heard people say it served Murray right for holding on to the ball and slowing it down.

The first kick, the second kick, or the third kick. None of which made a great deal of contact with the ball.

Old schoolers will tell you Murray deserved a shoeing. And back in the day we old schoolers were right. But nowadays it is for the ref to sort out not for Brown to take the Law into his own hands.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

They changed it a few years ago. I'd always thought that if the ref had seen it and decided not to do anything you couldn't be cited as it had effectively been dealt with during the game.

Nope. See above.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

and be aware the opposition at elite level can cite, as well as the commissioners.

 

[Wafer]

The first kick, the second kick, or the third kick. None of which made a great deal of contact with the ball.

Old schoolers will tell you Murray deserved a shoeing. And back in the day we old schoolers were right. But nowadays it is for the ref to sort out not for Brown to take the Law into his own hands.

Hence the word 'trying'
And you can go back to Jones' point, he was allowed to kick it, not taking the law into his hands in that case. The ref and other appear to have considered it accidental and Brown was genuinely going for the ball. On that basis, nothing wrong, nothing to cite?

 

[martint235]

Nope. See above.

Yep aware of it now, I thought it a relatively recent change certainly a pro era one, no?

 

[Aperitif]

I agree with Wafer's words. I might add that Mike Brown did well to try and kick the ball, given that he approached correctly, was being manhandled as he tried - in the grand scheme of the ruck - and was probably trying to boot the ball as far away from the posts as possible. Conor Murray might have had his hands nearer his head to avoid accidents happening; unfortunately, he kept finding them around the ball!
Regarding scrums, would it be a good idea for the clock to stop when the whistle is blown, and the clock restarted when the ball has made it out of the back, or thereabouts? Saves all those minutes of false knowledge, and teams will know they cannot gain any time advantage or negate the skills required etc.

 

[nickyboy]

Regarding scrums, would it be a good idea for the clock to stop when the whistle is blown, and the clock restarted when the ball has made it out of the back, or thereabouts? Saves all those minutes of false knowledge, and teams will know they cannot gain any time advantage or negate the skills required etc.

Wholeheartedly agree. Setting the scrums takes ages and is boring and is probably the easiest way for a team to semi-legitimately take time off the clock

I'd like to see a move to only having the clock ticking when the ball is in play, full stop. Not sure how long the playing time would need to be (for sure a lot less than 80 minutes). This would also take out the gentle trudge of the winning forwards to any lineout, another great time-wasting tactic

 

[swee'pea99]

You do wonder whether the scrum will survive in the long run. A proper, stable scrum is such a rarity these days; collapsing the scrum decisions are such a total lottery; and perhaps above all, the resetting and resetting just kills the momentum of a game, in a way spectators - at the ground or remotely - will be ever more unwilling to tolerate, as we become an ever-more 'I want satisfaction and I want it now!' society.

 

[Vidor06]

Regarding scrums, would it be a good idea for the clock to stop when the whistle is blown, and the clock restarted when the ball has made it out of the back, or thereabouts? Saves all those minutes of false knowledge, and teams will know they cannot gain any time advantage or negate the skills required etc.

The difficulty with that idea is that the game would just last forever and ever. I read yesterday that in one of the games at the weekend there were 18 minutes used up in scrums. Now imagine a game which lasts ordinarily 80 minutes, already extended by 10 minutes for injuries and TMO referrals. You then add another 18 minutes on for scrum resets, which might take even longer if they are not on the clock.
At the top level you see a lot of scrums reset even when the ball is sitting at the feet of the number 8.They need to stop that. If the ball is available to be played then the 9 should be made to play it or be penalised. It will lead to teams getting scrappy ball but hopefully there would be less time wasted on resets.

 

[Vidor06]

You do wonder whether the scrum will survive in the long run. A proper, stable scrum is such a rarity these days; collapsing the scrum decisions are such a total lottery; and perhaps above all, the resetting and resetting just kills the momentum of a game, in a way spectators - at the ground or remotely - will be ever more unwilling to tolerate, as we become an ever-more 'I want satisfaction and I want it now!' society.

Unless there is a dramatic change in how the scrum is managed then the only viable way forward is to adopt the rugby league method, whereby a scrum is awarded and the team putting it in is guaranteed to retain possession. Thereby turning the scrum from a competition to a mere restart. But if we do that then there is no real need for fatties (and I am one) in the game anymore. Rugby league players are al interchangable. A hooker can play stand off etc. Rugby union will end up the same, although bar front row almost all the players on a union side are the same size and build already.

 

[Davidc]

OK - I got Scotland wrong, and the French were pathetic.

I think it's too close to call between England and Wales, but England will be looking for revenge so I'm expecting it to be brutal.

 

[Aperitif]

The difficulty with that idea is that the game would just last forever and ever. I read yesterday that in one of the games at the weekend there were 18 minutes used up in scrums. Now imagine a game which lasts ordinarily 80 minutes, already extended by 10 minutes for injuries and TMO referrals. You then add another 18 minutes on for scrum resets, which might take even longer if they are not on the clock.
At the top level you see a lot of scrums reset even when the ball is sitting at the feet of the number 8.They need to stop that. If the ball is available to be played then the 9 should be made to play it or be penalised. It will lead to teams getting scrappy ball but hopefully there would be less time wasted on resets.

Sure, but as Nicky says, ball out of play - clock stopped. Fans attending (paying £80 etc for a berth) would get more value for money, the 'bench' might have to be a bit more judiciously used (avoiding the 'interchange' principle of RL) and also none of the clock stopping would interfere with the referee's interpretation of time wasting etc, should he or she wish to change the sequence of events.

 

[rich p]

There's something fundamentally wrong, surely, when you lot of aficionados spend more time discussing how to change the rules and interpretations, than you do the actual game?

 

[Aperitif]

There's something fundamentally wrong, surely, when you lot of aficionados spend more time discussing how to change the rules and interpretations, than you do the actual game?

For me, the time wasting and 'resets', free kicks etc - often at the whim of a 'referee's interpretation' of who is to blame are an irritating part of a game I like to watch.
Slowly but surely the game is being analysed by the public with scant knowledge of what really is going on - like this thread - and by the professionals, who train and condition, who pay the wages, who matter. Referees are put under excruciating pressure these days too - just imagine a few soft words from Greg Laidlaw, designed to eat up a few seconds - or other...
In other news: Brighton & Hove Albion 4 Leeds United 0