Shimano Di* do and do not.

[MadMrH]

Hi, I have read all 9 pages, forgive me if I missed this info..........

Time Trial bike setup.

Is it possible to buy Di2 2x11 and force it to be 2x10 via PC update unit?

I would really like the lighter / smaller (newer) Di2 11s over Ui2

ALL my wheels are 10 speed, discs can't changed/modified to 11 speed.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

You can't force it 11 speed Di2 to physically become 10 speed or behave like it, all attempts to do this I am aware of at this time are not issue free. There seems to be some work ongoing with reprogramming it using the e-tube diagnostic but its not at a state where it seems to work really well.

 

[LucF]

Hi,

I have modified the 7970 Di2 wiring on my Cervélo R3 to make it internal but with everything coming out of the BB back into the junction box, which although much better than the generic external setup with cables taped to the frame that my LBS had done, leaves me with a few things I don't like:
1. the battery is still external (hanging down on a chain stay),
2. a pile of wires under the BB,
3. heat shrink connection on all cables entering and exiting the frame,
4. not protected against shocks under BB or water.

I want to go the next step and put everything internal by:
1. finding an internal battery for the seat post (thinking of getting a battery from Di2diy like the one in this kit),
2. eliminating the junction box under the BB and joining wires together inside the seat tube without a Shimano junction,
3. eliminating the visible heat shrink by finding long enough Shimano cables going from the components to inside the frame.

Questions:
1. I need three 6-foot length cables (one each for the RD, FD and controls) with the proper connector at one end (i.e. straight for RD and controls and 90° for the FD). Does anybody know where I can find these?
2. Can anybody confirm that the junction box (Junction B with EW-7970 on it) only contains junctions and no circuitry, so that if I just join the wires as per Shimano's wiring diagram everything will work?

Thanks in advance,

 

[grumpyoldgit]

Hi,

I have modified the 7970 Di2 wiring on my Cervélo R3 to make it internal but with everything coming out of the BB back into the junction box, which although much better than the generic external setup with cables taped to the frame that my LBS had done, leaves me with a few things I don't like:
1. the battery is still external (hanging down on a chain stay),
2. a pile of wires under the BB,
3. heat shrink connection on all cables entering and exiting the frame,
4. not protected against shocks under BB or water.

I want to go the next step and put everything internal by:
1. finding an internal battery for the seat post (thinking of getting a battery from Di2diy like the one in this kit),
2. eliminating the junction box under the BB and joining wires together inside the seat tube without a Shimano junction,
3. eliminating the visible heat shrink by finding long enough Shimano cables going from the components to inside the frame.

Questions:
1. I need three 6-foot length cables (one each for the RD, FD and controls) with the proper connector at one end (i.e. straight for RD and controls and 90° for the FD). Does anybody know where I can find these?
2. Can anybody confirm that the junction box (Junction B with EW-7970 on it) only contains junctions and no circuitry, so that if I just join the wires as per Shimano's wiring diagram everything will work?

Thanks in advance,

Mr Haematocrit does a neat seat post battery conversion,cleans the frame up nicely.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Questions:
1. I need three 6-foot length cables (one each for the RD, FD and controls) with the proper connector at one end (i.e. straight for RD and controls and 90° for the FD). Does anybody know where I can find these?
2. Can anybody confirm that the junction box (Junction B with EW-7970 on it) only contains junctions and no circuitry, so that if I just join the wires as per Shimano's wiring diagram everything will work?

First of all, it sounds like you have actioned what you wish to achieve in a really odd way, I can replace the battery and make it internal with a plug and play conversion, no modification to the bikes loom is required at all.
if your loom is having the cables exit by the BB its looking for trouble and simply not required, I have fixed a number of Di2 conversions which did this and had a range of issues.
The battery you link to is one of the more standard common conversions in fact, I use this very battery myself on some of my conversions as it is a larger capacity than the standard battery, if you just want that you can get it from the following URL
http://www.batteryspace.com
Carbon is not a breathable material and you need the battery to be able to breathe, as such your seat post diameter and the expansion of the battery need to be taken into consideration when doing this.
You also need to consider how you will charge the bike battery when you have an internal battery, I charge through the rear derailleur however you need to be aware that not all chargers are capable of this, get it wrong and you melt the wiring inside the frame and then you have problems.
You will not find the cable lengths you desire you off the shelf will need to buy a complete loom or loom section with the required connections and take the components/connectors you desire from that.
I have spare looms which I cut up for my battery conversions, typically you need two connectors one for the battery and one for the charger. It is also advisable to put a connector half way up the seat although its not technically needed it makes removing the seat post easier.
If you want I can make you the cable lengths required, but being honest I'm not particularly cheap as unlike some I will not use low grade wiring and other things, if I would not be prepared to use it myself I would not pass it on to someone else. Likewise I'm not particularly quick if your in a rush look elsewhere as I like to test my work for a least a week.
I play with Di2 as its really interesting and fun, and to help people not because I'm making vast sums of money from it, the moment I cease to enjoy it I will stop.
Battery's I would typically use for an areo and normal seat post can be seen on page six of this thread.
I have no idea what is in the junction box itself as I have never had the need to bust one open to achieve what I want.. I suspect there is no circuit as you can replace this component with just wiring, but like I said I'm not 100% if you do please confirm this as I'm still learning about Di2 and would like to know.
The wiring diagram can be found earlier in this thread and should be reviewed when doing any modification.

 

[LucF]

Hi H,

Thanks for your reply. I proceeded as I did because I needed to fix the wiring and minimize down time and I didn't have an internal battery. It was also my first Di2 job and I wanted to keep regression efforts minimal in case of a major f up.

I'm not in any particular rush now. The bike is running in its present configuration, I'm in my brevet season and I don't want any more extended down time.

My goal is to have FD, RD and control cables leave the components, enter the carbon frame and never come out. So if I can get my hands on long enough cables I can have them come out at least 2 feet from the top of the seat tube to have room to work, join (solder and heat shrink) all connections as in the B junction box diagram and bridge (like you suggested) the battery wire to a seat post battery through a connector. I don't mind having to remove the seat post to charge the battery. My seat post is a 27.2 mm Thudbuster ST and an AA battery fits inside no problem.

As for the junction box, my guess (like yours) is that it contains no circuitry, so I don't foresee any particular problem in eliminating it.

So H, if I could get the following parts from you, it would be great:
1. Seat post battery with 6" wire ending with connector, plus fitting connector that I can install on the wire coming from my loom, plus means to hold battery in seat post if possible, plus charger and means to connect it to the battery, plus enough protection circuitry so that battery doesn't explode under my arse while riding nor while charging.
2. The 3 cable lengths as described in Question 1 of my 1st post (you say you can make these; I have no problem with you making them, as long as they look and perform like the Shimano ones, i.e. seamless connections, no heat shrink, waterproof, same diameter, 5 strains for control cable [or all], etc.).
3. Three grommets (had forgotten about those).

As for pricing, I'm pretty sure we can agree on something. I'm looking for quality and reliability first, pricing second.

You can reach me at lucdemontreal@yahoo.ca.

Regards,

 

[Ian DIckens]

Hi folks - just found this forum having almost gone insane with ui2 problems. My issues seem similar to martyp but any advice is welcome.

I will try and keep this to the point!!

The bike is a Cube Agree equipped with ui2 and purchased new in Feb 2012. No real use between Feb - April 2012 except one sportive. Around 12 months ago, the system was completely dead. I tried a recharge but nothing.

Took it back to LBS (they did not have a diagnostics at this point) who by power of deduction told me I had a fault battery mount. They alluded I had got it "too wet" so I stumped up £90 for a replacement. I was just happy it was working.

The bike worked ok for the remainder of the year. In Feb 2013, I was away on a trg week. On day 5 the front mech did not shift smoothly a couple of times. I forgot about it as I finished the ride with no problem. Later that day I thought I would check the battery charge - it was on red so I removed it and recharged. Went back a few hrs later to put the battery back on - the system was still dead.

Another trip back to the shop (this time they had the diagnostics) and they pointed the fault to the battery. I was sold a replacement battery and I made my point that altough I accept the battery is consumable, I did not expect to be replacing with in effect less then a years use and probably less then 1500 miles.

I got back home - fitted the new battery and nothing there. I pressed the button on the junction box a few times and managed to kick it into life.

I did not use the bike very often until the last couple of weeks as I was trg for a race and decided to stick to my bike with "normal" gears as I had lost faith and confidence in the ui2.

When I went back to the cube, the battery seemed to die very quickly. I noticed it was flashing at 50% almost straight away and the next morning was dead. I had subsequently got another battery so I could swap them around.

The same process - each battery seems to charge OK taking the 90 odd minutes. I put the battery on and within around 24 hrs it has gone from full to half and very quickly to flat.

I took the bike to an alternative shop who have the diagnostics but they could not see anything obvious on the testing (firmware updated etc)

Yesterday morning I went for a quick spin - it changes fine but after just 15 miles the front mech stopped shifting. I checked and the battery indicator was in the red. Swapped to the other battery and fine. Rode home (7 miles predominately down hill so little in the way of gear change); Checked the battery and it was ok. Checked it again around 13 hrs later and flashing light. Checked this morning (23 hrs after fitting) and it was dead.

I am hacked off on various counts - one that the LBS have charged me for a new mount and battery (I have been advised by another shop that the warrenty of ui2 if within normal use is 3 years?) but more so that my bike at present is an expensive dust collector.

I am due to get it back to the shop asap but it would be nice to get some opinions from here as to what may be wrong or if there are any similar issues. All wires etc etc seem fine and there are no obvious nicks on the wiring system;

From my experience, whatever the fault is is not going to show on the diagnostic software but I just want the bike to be fit for purpose. At present I am too nervous to go more then a hour from home.

Thanks in advance and apologies if this rambled on

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

The 3 cable lengths as described in Question 1 of my 1st post (you say you can make these; I have no problem with you making them, as long as they look and perform like the Shimano ones, i.e. seamless connections, no heat shrink, waterproof, same diameter, 5 strains for control cable [or all], etc.).
3. Three grommets (had forgotten about those).

I would not be willing to make the cables under the terms you desire, they would not look like Shimano's or perform like the shimano ones.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

I am hacked off on various counts - one that the LBS have charged me for a new mount and battery (I have been advised by another shop that the warrenty of ui2 if within normal use is 3 years?) but more so that my bike at present is an expensive dust collector.

Thanks in advance and apologies if this rambled on

Damn Ian you have a right to be hacked off, you equally have my sympathy but this have no value to you unfortunately. As you have said the diagnostics have not discovered anything. You need to undertake a process of discounting components, when Ui2 goes into sleep mode and powers down however it seems like one of your components maybe a little restless.
I would inspect your loom closely and ensure that it does not have any damage or pinching. They often get pinching around the bars and stem. If you are unable to locate damage you will need to start discounting components and this is time consuming. Charge your battery and unplug a single component, if the battery still goes flat charge again and unplug another component till you get to the component with the short

 

[LucF]

I would not be willing to make the cables under the terms you desire, they would not look like Shimano's or perform like the shimano ones.

What could you make then?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

At no point do I believe that Shimano's wiring or connectors are waterproof as such, would not claim mine would be. Equally the longest cable you will find using a default Shimano wire will be the large bike loom kit, if you require Shimano grade wire, sizing and quality this would ultimately be your best bet.
I use oxygen free copper wires which are slightly larger diameter than that which Shimano use and rated higher than the battery current, my own limit is defined by the connector and as long as the wiring is a smaller diameter than this it will go through any holes the connector needs to.
At this time I do not have any large lengths of wiring and only have bits of a loom left from previous work, as such I would need to cut the connectors of the loom, solder them to the required length wire and protect with heat shrink.

 

[Billrush]

Any suggestions for this problem? Ui2 on a used bike I just bought. Di2 worked great first 50 miles then RD stopped working. FD continued. LBS looked at it and said plug to right shifter wasn't fully seated. He seated properly and shifted great. Also upgraded firmware and enabled multi-shift. Sweet. Road 30 miles yesterday with no problem. Today the RD stopped working again at 10 miles out. Limped back home and rolled back the rubber hood to expose the cable entering the right shifter. This time I could see that the cable was not seated again. How is that possible? Looking at the plug I could see a thin piece of plastic around the plug was folded back in part. Perhaps that limited the plug from seating properly? I trimmed a little off, reseated the plug and we'll see what happens. Questions: 1. I wonder if the cable is just a bit too tight and vibrations cause it to come out? 2. I wonder if Shimano will give me a new junction box which would have a new cable plug which might hold better? 3. I have the remote rear shifter button on order. That will give me a backup means to shift.

At least now I understand exactly the problem and should be able to re-seat the plug on the road until this is permanently solved. Suggestions or comments

 

[grumpyoldgit]

Shimano make 2 different tools for Dura Ace & Ultegra,if you dont use them you risk serious damage to the connectors.Sounds silly,but it is true.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-T...ltDomain_0&hash=item3a74c0a4cd#ht_2881wt_1083
This is one,the other is EW02.Without them you will not get a good connection.

 

[Billrush]

So, the TL EW-02 is on order. I wondered about that tool. I thought it was for disconnecting!

 

[grumpyoldgit]

Very important for connecting as well.