safest way to make right turn, busy dual carriageway

[Norm]

I have to disagree with Norm.

I think that is the most honest thing you've ever posted. I should respond by saying that you don't have to disagree with anyone but history would suggest that you do indeed feel some sort of compulsion to disagree wherever possible.

I don't like Cycle Craft for it's pretence that it is possible to ride to a manual without taking note of local conditions.

 

[psmiffy]

Anyone would think that cars were not equipped with brakes. I can assure you that if you just make sure that the space you're occupying is clear and whoever is 'bearing down on you' has seen you and has the ability to stop before he/she reaches you, you will always be fine on the road.

I totally agree that cars have effective brakes and are capable of making space if they want to - however, I still have vivid memories of certain muscles of the lower abdomen loosening and tightening as I heard the sounds of brakes behind me as I crossed three lanes of traffic with my right arm out in Paris after having been dumped into the center of a fast 6 lane highway from an elevated ramp - I didnt have much choice in the matter and there was no going back - i was certainly out of my comfort zone - one of my greatest achievements - NO

 

[oilyormo]

update.
taking in all opinions, and without bias i thought about being more assertve this morning and try to make clear indications of my intention to change lanes and see how the traffic responds unfortunately the road was very quiet and no traffic behind at the time so it was stress free to move to the outside lane.

this evening the traffic was bumper to bumper and travelling at high speed 40 ish, lights on green. shoulder checking didnt reveal a suitable gap and i didnt have the bottle to be assertive enough to force the manouvre so i found it best to ease off the speed and cruise up until the lights changed to red and the traffic was slowing. that gave me the neccessary gap to nip across to the outside lane in one manouvre.

the down side to this technique is that i could have got through the lights but was caught by the red and lost momentum, but it felt safer

 

[Andy_R]

The whole point of Cyclecraft, Effective Cycling and the national schemes that take these manuals as their foundation, was to find the safest way (not the fastest, most convenient or most law-abiding way) to cycle. The whole reason we ride in the road is because it's the safest place to ride. That's why we who have learned to ride using these cycling safety schemes don't advocate pedestrian-style turns - because they're less safe.

In cycling, what looks safest often isn't. Walking a bike across lanes of traffic increases risk. We are far safer negotiating a turn using the standard rules and infrastructure of the road that have been developed over 120+ years, than we are when we make up our own rules whose prime motivation is to calm unfounded fears about the dangers of operating a bicycle in the street.

The road isn't anywhere near as dangerous as some cyclists make it out to be. If it were, I would have been knocked off my bike at least once in my 40 years and 20,000+ miles of road cycling.

The whole idea of cycle training schemes such as Bikability is to get riders up to a point where they are able to understand hazard perception and develop strategies to deal with hazards. In level 3 of the national standard there are only two compulsary outcomes. Guess what they are....Hazard perception and strategy to deal with hazards, and Understanding of route planning. In otherwords, a safe cyclist will evaluate the situation, then develop a strategy to deal with it. If this means choosing a different route then so be it. In some cases, it is recommended to use "pedestrian style" turns. The DfT in it's delivey documentation for level 2 Bikeability right turn major to minor states "Cyclists should be seen to demonstrate the manoeuvre in this way but they should also be aware that if there is considerable traffic behind, they may cycle in their normal position and stop by the kerb at the far side of the junction. From there they may complete the manoeuvre either on their bicycle or on foot, once it is safe to cross the road." This demonstrates good hazard perception and strategy to deal with. Simply going for it is not always the best answer. Get your facts right Ian. Cyclecraft is good up to a point, but after that it is all about your own decision making based on your experience, ability, and confidence. Trying to convince anyone otherwise is, quite frankly, dangerous. Do you have good indemnity insurance Ian, because if anyone who followed your advice was to sue you afterwards...........I hate to imagine it.

 

[summerdays]

unfortunately the road was very quiet and no traffic behind at the time so it was stress free to move to the outside lane.

There is no pleasing some people. Glad to hear it went fine. Try it a few times and you can refine your technique, maybe change lanes earlier or later etc (obviously depending on the conditions).

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I've got a dual cycling personality: fearless like Magnatom at 5 am, wimpish chicken at 5 pm
Well done Oilyormo.

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

I think too many cyclists look at the road and see it filled with monsters out to get us

Isn't that the best way to think?

 

[Nihal]

Or you could join this lot