Risk Of 'Snake Pass' (A57) Closing Permanantly!

[FishFright]

Rural NIMBYs perhaps, but I doubt city dwellers have been against it. Rural NIMBYs drove the cost up too. I live in the south and visit relatives in the north, I want it. I don't drive, by choice. Many people don't even have a choice in whether to drive.

Many people have been going on about needing more up to day train capacity for years and as soon as something was going to happen about it the same people suddenly became against the idea . How very English.

 

[Boopop]

Not just rural NIMBYs.

Keeping politics aside, the arguments for it are specious at best. If it runs at full capacity every single day for 120 years it will have only just offset the emissions created during construction.

Any argument in favour, and they themselves are questionable, pales into insignificance when held against the environmental damage being wrought at a time when the nation has legally binding emissions/climate targets.

Not wanting the planet borked to make life a little more convenient for a minority isn't NIMBYism.

I don't own a car and have relatives a lot further North than you and don't want it. It's not in my back yard and I don't want it. Dismissing objections as NIMBYism is massively misrepresenting the majority of those folk that are against it.

How about we agree best not to make sweeping generalisations (which you did too) on unrelated subjects?

 

[classic33]

Many people have been going on about needing more up to day train capacity for years and as soon as something was going to happen about it the same people suddenly became against the idea . How very English.

The need for more trains includes between Leeds and Manchester. In this case passenger trains, with a bigger need for freight trains between ports on both coasts.
Between Leeds and Manchester there's fewer passenger trains than when work started on HS2, down by 20%. The new rolling stock didn't last long in these parts either.

The M62 has bridge work going on this month, meaning that this particular cross Pennine route is shut on Sundays. One day a week won't hurt much, will it, but where's that traffic going?

 

[FishFright]

The need for more trains includes between Leeds and Manchester. In this case passenger trains, with a bigger need for freight trains between ports on both coasts.
Between Leeds and Manchester there's fewer passenger trains than when work started on HS2, down by 20%. The new rolling stock didn't last long in these parts either.

The M62 has bridge work going on this month, meaning that this particular cross Pennine route is shut on Sundays. One day a week won't hurt much, will it, but where's that traffic going?

New lines should be a major part of the national infrastructure plans , especially cross country. Sadly no politician is going to hang their career on that post HS2

 

[classic33]

New lines should be a major part of the national infrastructure plans , especially cross country. Sadly no politician is going to hang their career on that post HS2

It's not actually more lines(routes) that I was saying was being asked for. More rolling stock/capacity required for those passengers that use the existing routes.

Playing sardines twice a day, can put you off travelling by train. 50+ people in the doorways of the newer rolling stock is normal.

 

[FishFright]

It's not actually more lines(routes) that I was saying was being asked for. More rolling stock/capacity required for those passengers that use the existing routes.

Playing sardines twice a day, can put you off travelling by train. 50+ people in the doorways of the newer rolling stock is normal.

The lines, during rush hour are pretty near saturated and the trains can't be made any longer due to lack of room to increase most platform lengths .
The only way to get more trains is to lay more lines . But not anywhere nice , or near me , or near rich people etc etc .

ETA I was incorrect about saturation , this only applies in the south east

 

[classic33]

The lines, during rush hour are pretty near saturated and the trains can't be made any longer due to lack of room to increase most platform lengths .
The only way to get more trains is to lay more lines . But not anywhere nice , or near me , or near rich people etc etc .

Newest station near me, Low Moor, can take six carriages, but they run trains half that length, possibly shorter. Bradford, both stations, can take eight. Halifax can, and has taken eleven, including separate locomotive. The shortest, and newest, 0 & 00 in Leeds were built to take 12 carriages. We are back to two carriages, of the older rolling stock, for most of the day. Three when it gets busy, but no more frequent running.

You can have as many trains as you want, but if they're not going anywhere what good are they?
I got on the bike commuting to Leeds and back, 11 days out of 14, because of the reliability. The reliability has got worse since and the number of trains per hour is less now than then. It's easy see why cross Pennine road routes are getting busier. Combine an unreliable rail service with a motorway at capacity and you're left with a mess.

 

[FishFright]

Newest station near me, Low Moor, can take six carriages, but they run trains half that length, possibly shorter. Bradford, both stations, can take eight. Halifax can, and has taken eleven, including separate locomotive. The shortest, and newest, 0 & 00 in Leeds were built to take 12 carriages. We are back to two carriages, of the older rolling stock, for most of the day. Three when it gets busy, but no more frequent running.

You can have as many trains as you want, but if they're not going anywhere what good are they?
I got on the bike commuting to Leeds and back, 11 days out of 14, because of the reliability. The reliability has got worse since and the number of trains per hour is less now than then. It's easy see why cross Pennine road routes are getting busier. Combine an unreliable rail service with a motorway at capacity and you're left with a mess.

I was wrong about saturation , this only applies in the South East.

Why maintain your stock when you can pay dividends and management bonus's instead? What else are public subsidies for?

On a serious not I think the franchises need to change to include tighter controls on maintenance etc

 

[wiggydiggy]

The Transpennine Route Upgrade that's been done between Manchester and Leeds is a step in the right direction. Theres going to be massive disruption though for the next 6 week's with no trains running through Dewsbury. It will though at least when done increase the capacity on the line.

https://thetrupgrade.co.uk/upcomingclosures/

 

[Dogtrousers]

On a serious not I think the franchises need to change to include tighter controls on maintenance etc

Under the new govt., franchises will be brought under national ownership as they expire (I think that's the plan). Theoretically that's an opportunity to improve things but the proof will be in the pudding ....

Edited because it was even more nonsensical than my usual rubbish.

 

[ColinJ]

The new govt. will be brought under national ownership as they expire...

But do we really want to own the government...?

 

[Dogtrousers]

But do we really want to own the government...?

Oops - I'll edit

 

[T4tomo]

The very sound case for HS2 was that the west coast mainline was/ is running pretty much at capacity due to combo of freight and passenger demand. no-one every really said, oh it would be nice to get to Birmingham 20 minutes sooner.

Then the committee of boffins who came up with HS2, not only got the extra capacity needed into the solution, we got the "lets run it as fast as the best Continental railways", which is when the cost escalated massively, as that means the track has to be much straighter, hence way more bridges tunnels and cuttings and CPO's, as it was no longer possible to let the line run where more convenient, i.e through farmland, instead of through village etc.

If the designers had ben instructed to design it to similar speeds to existing WCM line, then i would have probably been built by now and a fraction of the eventual cost.

 

[matticus]

Tunneling through a National Park?

Ask the Swiss.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The very sound case for HS2 was that the west coast mainline was/ is running pretty much at capacity due to combo of freight and passenger demand. no-one every really said, oh it would be nice to get to Birmingham 20 minutes sooner.

Then the committee of boffins who came up with HS2, not only got the extra capacity needed into the solution, we got the "lets run it as fast as the best Continental railways", which is when the cost escalated massively, as that means the track has to be much straighter, hence way more bridges tunnels and cuttings and CPO's, as it was no longer possible to let the line run where more convenient, i.e through farmland, instead of through village etc.

If the designers had ben instructed to design it to similar speeds to existing WCM line, then i would have probably been built by now and a fraction of the eventual cost.

A very good summary of things - at least, as I understand them to be.

Of course if they had build it to lower standards/ speeds there would be people bellyaching about lack of ambition compared with the French TGVs. And - without the benefit of hindsight - I would probably have been one of them

It also led to the capacity argument being lost in the noise of "oh, it's just so that rich people can get to Birmingham 15 minutes faster".