Recumbent Rides

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I am basically a three wheel recumbentist but have tried a few two wheelers in my time. I still have my Nazca Fuego and after coming close am not going to part with it (SWMBO’s orders!). I also have a Mk1 Recycled Recumbent which was my first two wheeler, not the easiest to ride (hence why the Mk2 was invented, I think) but goes like a dream on the open road in a way that a motley collection of random bits of old bikes has no right to.

If you fancy trying two wheels I’d start off with something like a BikeE, very forgiving especially if you put a wider handlebar on it. After building the RR I acquired a Pashley PDQ which probably gets the title of easiest two wheeler to ride, at least at moderate speeds ; I could practically do track stands on it, on one occasion I rolled up to a junction so slowly I forgot I wasn’t riding my trike and promptly toppled over when I finally came to a stop. You need to be a bit taller than my 1.73m to ride it though, I could only get my feet down on tip toes. Ultimately with regret I sold it to get my Fuego, much more stable at all speeds especially with “aero bars” (Nazca speak for superman/open cockpit bars).

Ultimately whilst the Nazca is a fast, involving machine I struggle with its weight up hills and have a permanent fear of slippery corners (born of experience, sadly). My ICE VTX is only a smidgen slower, though, if not its equal, and I have no issues with hills or corners either.

I guess you need to ask yourself why you want to try a two wheeler; in my case it was curiosity and variety, simple. Something like a BikeE or a Grasshopper would be great for more urban settings. If you want to go fast at any cost you’re looking at one of the high racers… out of bounds for me because of my leg length. I think the VTX is a very competitive alternative for the more vertically challenged, though.

 

[oldwheels]

I can't say ,as it does depend much on the rider, but I am inclined to believe lower LWB ones will be, shorter wheelbase high racer types are twitchy.
But it depends on the rider I think, seeing as your a triker it may be exacerbated, again by how long you been triking.

At Duns I liked the MWB Linear with under seat steering. I tried some others with above seat steering but did not get on with them.
I think a lower seating position and different view point may help plus of course the USS.
I have been triking for about 4 years now but on our narrow roads and some forest roads two wheels would be easier and I did cycle on two wheels for many years until I lost confidence in my balancing ability.

 

[oldwheels]

I am basically a three wheel recumbentist but have tried a few two wheelers in my time. I still have my Nazca Fuego and after coming close am not going to part with it (SWMBO’s orders!). I also have a Mk1 Recycled Recumbent which was my first two wheeler, not the easiest to ride (hence why the Mk2 was invented, I think) but goes like a dream on the open road in a way that a motley collection of random bits of old bikes has no right to.

If you fancy trying two wheels I’d start off with something like a BikeE, very forgiving especially if you put a wider handlebar on it. After building the RR I acquired a Pashley PDQ which probably gets the title of easiest two wheeler to ride, at least at moderate speeds ; I could practically do track stands on it, on one occasion I rolled up to a junction so slowly I forgot I wasn’t riding my trike and promptly toppled over when I finally came to a stop. You need to be a bit taller than my 1.73m to ride it though, I could only get my feet down on tip toes. Ultimately with regret I sold it to get my Fuego, much more stable at all speeds especially with “aero bars” (Nazca speak for superman/open cockpit bars).

Ultimately whilst the Nazca is a fast, involving machine I struggle with its weight up hills and have a permanent fear of slippery corners (born of experience, sadly). My ICE VTX is only a smidgen slower, though, if not its equal, and I have no issues with hills or corners either.

I guess you need to ask yourself why you want to try a two wheeler; in my case it was curiosity and variety, simple. Something like a BikeE or a Grasshopper would be great for more urban settings. If you want to go fast at any cost you’re looking at one of the high racers… out of bounds for me because of my leg length. I think the VTX is a very competitive alternative for the more vertically challenged, though.

Thanks for the advice. I just missed a bikeE which was on sale near Aberdeen and I was going there anyway on family business but the seller quite sensibly would not wait and sold to someday else who turned up first.
Reasons for wanting the option of two wheels are storage and portability. The Kettiessel is a large unwieldy beast tho' I do like it otherwise.

 

[deejayen]

I have a few recumbents of different types, and every time I get on a normal bike I'm struck by how easy they are to steer and balance, so I'm not sure any two wheeled recumbent would be better from a balance point of view.

In my experience, a recumbent with a more upright seat is generally easier to balance than one with a reclined seat.

Also, a lower recumbent can be harder to balance than a taller one.

A lot of balance issues go away at higher speeds, but slow, steep climbs can be especially challenging, as can slow speed manouevres, especially on bikes with reclined seats and where there's a possibility of your feet hitting the front wheel.

One of the least stressful recumbents I have is an old Radius Peer Gynt - a long wheelbase bike with underseat steering. Perhaps it's similar to the Linear you tried - I think they were imported by Neatworks (of Coldstream?), which was possibly the dealer who ran the open day in Duns. I'm still getting used to the bike, so slow speed manouevres and tighter turns (due to the length of the bike) take a bit of concentration, but on the open road it just glides along. The riding position is upright, and the pedals are lower (easier to get a foot down if you need to). It would probably take a bit of practice to get used to starting off, but once rolling it's very good. It's not a particularly fast recumbent, and it weighs a ton so it does slow down a bit on climbs. I've only taken it on one hilly ride so far, but I don't recall having any balance or steering issues on steeper sections; it just took more effort than a road bike.

One thing with recumbents is that they can take a wee while to get used to, so a test ride might not always give you a feel for it, especially if you struggle to get going. It might be worth just buying one which you think might work for you, and then seeing how you get on with it in your own time. Of course, not everyone is willing to ship a recumbent, but most of mine have been bought used, and have been sent to me from other ends of the country.

 

[a.twiddler]

For myself, I like two wheelers and I'm lucky enough to still have good balance. It seems that as you get older amongst the many faculties that deteriorate is your sense of balance. Perhaps on the basis that if you don't use it, you lose it, keeping active helps to preserve your abilities, and maybe balancing on two wheels is one of the activities. I still manage to ride a motor bike most days, and maybe even the act of wheeling it into its parking space could be considered something of a workout.

It was just fate that I learned to ride recumbents on the Linear with USS. If I'd started on a bike with ASS I'd probably be one of the many that wouldn't even consider a USS bike. The Linear seat is quite high for a recumbent, but due to the laws of physics that's an advantage when you're learning to balance a strange machine. The mechanism of the inner ear can detect small movements and your body reacts to keep your balance. It's no accident that it's at the highest point of your body. On an upright bike your balance mechanism is at a similar height to a person walking. The lower it goes, as on a recumbent, the faster your reactions have to be to maintain balance, particularly as the recline increases. Even fit young riders take some time to adapt to riding a shortish wheelbase lowracer as the reaction times needed are such that by the time you've detected movement you might not react in time, and fall off. Some riders might never get the hang of it.

Fortunately recumbent bikes with higher seats aren't so difficult to adapt to. The Linear is something of a cumbersome beast itself but with practice it can be ridden in lots of places that seem unlikely at first. The Spirit, being a compact long wheelbase bike with a low step over is even more versatile, and is easy to hop on and off if necessary which is useful if you're as short as I am. These two manage to climb anything, maybe not fast, but certainly whatever comes their way. Other CLWB bikes like the Oke-Ja and Bike-E have similar accessibility and ability away from metalled roads. For getting on and off, the seat base on the Linear and the Spirit is the highest part of the bike, as the frame in front is lower. I now have a Grasshopper with USS which I'm evaluating. The frame in front of the seat is higher on this bike, but it's just a matter of practice in getting on and off.

Even SWB bikes can be easier to ride than you might expect. I had a Dawes Low Rider for a while with ASS which I could just get on and ride. If it wasn't for the fact of the boom being fractionally lacking in adjustment I might have kept it longer. USS has its drawbacks compared with ASS but with a bit of ingenuity they can be overcome, and to me it's worth it for the relaxed ride it gives.

 

[oldwheels]

I have a few recumbents of different types, and every time I get on a normal bike I'm struck by how easy they are to steer and balance, so I'm not sure any two wheeled recumbent would be better from a balance point of view.

In my experience, a recumbent with a more upright seat is generally easier to balance than one with a reclined seat.

Also, a lower recumbent can be harder to balance than a taller one.

A lot of balance issues go away at higher speeds, but slow, steep climbs can be especially challenging, as can slow speed manouevres, especially on bikes with reclined seats and where there's a possibility of your feet hitting the front wheel.

One of the least stressful recumbents I have is an old Radius Peer Gynt - a long wheelbase bike with underseat steering. Perhaps it's similar to the Linear you tried - I think they were imported by Neatworks (of Coldstream?), which was possibly the dealer who ran the open day in Duns. I'm still getting used to the bike, so slow speed manouevres and tighter turns (due to the length of the bike) take a bit of concentration, but on the open road it just glides along. The riding position is upright, and the pedals are lower (easier to get a foot down if you need to). It would probably take a bit of practice to get used to starting off, but once rolling it's very good. It's not a particularly fast recumbent, and it weighs a ton so it does slow down a bit on climbs. I've only taken it on one hilly ride so far, but I don't recall having any balance or steering issues on steeper sections; it just took more effort than a road bike.

One thing with recumbents is that they can take a wee while to get used to, so a test ride might not always give you a feel for it, especially if you struggle to get going. It might be worth just buying one which you think might work for you, and then seeing how you get on with it in your own time. Of course, not everyone is willing to ship a recumbent, but most of mine have been bought used, and have been sent to me from other ends of the country.

It was indeed Neatworks at Duns where I tried several including a trike which gave me a fright as I nearly couped it.
I do indeed need to try one but I am not keen to buy even used until I think it would really work for me.
Kinetics in Glasgow would let me try some but nowadays with increased traffic volumes and complications like bus lanes I am not keen to drive there as I once would have done without hesitation.

 

[oldwheels]

For myself, I like two wheelers and I'm lucky enough to still have good balance. It seems that as you get older amongst the many faculties that deteriorate is your sense of balance. Perhaps on the basis that if you don't use it, you lose it, keeping active helps to preserve your abilities, and maybe balancing on two wheels is one of the activities. I still manage to ride a motor bike most days, and maybe even the act of wheeling it into its parking space could be considered something of a workout.

It was just fate that I learned to ride recumbents on the Linear with USS. If I'd started on a bike with ASS I'd probably be one of the many that wouldn't even consider a USS bike. The Linear seat is quite high for a recumbent, but due to the laws of physics that's an advantage when you're learning to balance a strange machine. The mechanism of the inner ear can detect small movements and your body reacts to keep your balance. It's no accident that it's at the highest point of your body. On an upright bike your balance mechanism is at a similar height to a person walking. The lower it goes, as on a recumbent, the faster your reactions have to be to maintain balance, particularly as the recline increases. Even fit young riders take some time to adapt to riding a shortish wheelbase lowracer as the reaction times needed are such that by the time you've detected movement you might not react in time, and fall off. Some riders might never get the hang of it.

Fortunately recumbent bikes with higher seats aren't so difficult to adapt to. The Linear is something of a cumbersome beast itself but with practice it can be ridden in lots of places that seem unlikely at first. The Spirit, being a compact long wheelbase bike with a low step over is even more versatile, and is easy to hop on and off if necessary which is useful if you're as short as I am. These two manage to climb anything, maybe not fast, but certainly whatever comes their way. Other CLWB bikes like the Oke-Ja and Bike-E have similar accessibility and ability away from metalled roads. For getting on and off, the seat base on the Linear and the Spirit is the highest part of the bike, as the frame in front is lower. I now have a Grasshopper with USS which I'm evaluating. The frame in front of the seat is higher on this bike, but it's just a matter of practice in getting on and off.

Even SWB bikes can be easier to ride than you might expect. I had a Dawes Low Rider for a while with ASS which I could just get on and ride. If it wasn't for the fact of the boom being fractionally lacking in adjustment I might have kept it longer. USS has its drawbacks compared with ASS but with a bit of ingenuity they can be overcome, and to me it's worth it for the relaxed ride it gives.

Thanks for all the useful information. From my admittedly brief experience I think USS would suit me best.

 

[deejayen]

I was in Kinetics fairly recently, and I think there was only one 2-wheeled recumbent (a used HP Velotechnik Street Machine with underseat steering, which looked really nice). I suppose you use a 'Park and Ride' facility to avoid the busier city roads, and then get the underground or bus to Kinetics.

There's also Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh - David may have some more 2-wheelers, and he can run a starter session / tour to help you get started. It might be worth doing that if you can get over to Edinburgh.

 

[oldwheels]

I was in Kinetics fairly recently, and I think there was only one 2-wheeled recumbent (a used HP Velotechnik Street Machine with underseat steering, which looked really nice). I suppose you use a 'Park and Ride' facility to avoid the busier city roads, and then get the underground or bus to Kinetics.

There's also Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh - David may have some more 2-wheelers, and he can run a starter session / tour to help you get started. It might be worth doing that if you can get over to Edinburgh.

It was good when Kinetics were out in the suburbs more but the shop was not big enough I think and he moved further in towards the centre.
Coming from the west it should be fairly straightforward to drive there but I cannot walk far so subway is out and my knowledge of city bus services is zero. Park and ride is also not suitable even if I knew where there was one. We used to stop at a caravan park in Balloch and take the train from there but that is also not possible now with no motorhome.
I lived in Glasgow as a student but that was about 70 years ago and thing change.
Edinburgh is completely out unless I get the big prize on PBs on Wednesday.

 

[deejayen]

That's a shame. I don't know Glasgow that well either, but used to go to Ben's old shop which also seemed a bit of a trek. I didn't think his new shop was too bad to get to as it's not in the centre, and is outside the LEZ. It's on the A81 Garscube road which goes out to Maryhill). He has parking behind the shop, and the canal side path runs close to the shop.

Maybe one day I'll manage a tour over to Mull...

And perhaps you'll be in Edinburgh on Thursday!

 

[oldwheels]

That's a shame. I don't know Glasgow that well either, but used to go to Ben's old shop which also seemed a bit of a trek. I didn't think his new shop was too bad to get to as it's not in the centre, and is outside the LEZ. It's on the A81 Garscube road which goes out to Maryhill). He has parking behind the shop, and the canal side path runs close to the shop.

Maybe one day I'll manage a tour over to Mull...

And perhaps you'll be in Edinburgh on Thursday!

I have been to his new shop but I was taken by a Glasgow friend who lives near his original shop which was easy for me to get to by car or even by rail.
Both my trikes came from Kinetics but it cost just over £200 to get the Kettwiesel delivered to Oban by specialist courier. Sounds expensive but when you cost travel and accommodation saved it is not too bad really.

 

[deejayen]

I can't remember now - was his original shop near Bearsden?

Yes, £200+ sounds expensive considering the distance, and you still have to get to Oban to pick it up. However it's less hassle, and as you say, you save a bit on travel and accommodation. Perhaps it would be less expensive to have a bike (presumably a smaller box) shipped to you, and maybe a bike could be shipped using a standard courier. However, some advertised services only cover you for a small amount, so they get more expensive if you add insurance to the value of the bike/trike.

As I said, the ex-demo Street Machine looked to be in nice condition (it was on display shelf). They seem to be very popular as a touring / commuting recumbent. I don't see many recumbents on the road, and those I do see are usually Street Machines on tour from mainland Europe. I've never ridden one so I have no idea what the seat height is like (especially with the under seat steering) or what they'd be like to ride from a stability/balance point of view. It might be worth asking Ben's opinion.

 

[a.twiddler]

This chap does quite a down to earth review of his Streetmachine. Mind you, he is as tall as I am short, but it seems a decent all round bike for someone of average height.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRpXvhBLaK0

(assuming my link works)

 

[a.twiddler]

Tiny Recumbent Ride Today
(Illicit Ride No 2)
4/10/24

Another short gentle walk on wheels.
Reverse direction to the last ride. Out through the back gate, right on to the road, then settled down to a steady pace. I noticed that the Garmin, being at the bottom of my glasses eye line, wasn’t sharply in focus. That’s varifocals for you. No worse than the Linear, where you need to lean forward to read it. Rolling up a gentle hill, past a school, then looking for the entrance to a path to the right. It was behind a row of parked cars, so I turned into a low pavement to reach the path. I was caught out here, expecting the front wheel to to be in the usual place for a LWB bike, ie, at the front, not under my knees, so with a combination of the angle not being obtuse enough and a relatively skinny tyre, the front wheel tried to follow the line of the kerb. The seat was low enough that I got a foot down immediately and stopped without incident.

Once on the pavement I turned on to the path and within a few yards found the front wheel following a faint groove in the tarmac where there had been some repairs. I corrected the wobble then I stopped and checked that the tyres were fully inflated, which they were. I was beginning to doubt the effectiveness of these Schwalbe Kojak slicks for my sort of mild off road use, despite the last ride being uneventful. I noticed that this was a sheltered part of the path with some green moss underwheel, but it wouldn’t have caused issues with my usual lightly treaded wider tyres.

I pressed on gingerly following the slight downhill of the path until I reached a road. I crossed over then continued along the path. There were high fences and shrubs either side. As I was slowly negotiating an overgrown part my left heel fleetingly contacted something. It didn’t register at first then I realised it must have been my heel touching the mudguard. I slowed right down and tried the same movement again. I was only able to make it brush lightly this time but it did happen. No big deal, but I will have to watch out for that in future.

I took a few riders’ eye view pictures as I went along. There were a few dog walkers about.

I came to another road and went across to where the path continued on the other side. Here it was like a tunnel between wooden garden fences.

I turned right where another path crossed and eventually came to a point where it met another road. There’s a distinct lack of dropped kerbs hereabouts. I could have bumped down to the road but turned right to a nearby road junction. Here I got on to the road, turned left then right on to the original road and trundled slowly uphill. As I got near my back gate I crossed over to a dropped kerb and got on to the pavement outside my back gate. I didn’t feel as good as I did last time when I got back. Some seat adjustment still needed, and got to think about those tyres. It might be that they’re just old, and might benefit from some general use to just roughen up the surface.

Distance 1.16 miles. Max Speed 8.2 mph. Average 4.8 mph. According to Garmin.
Ascent 38 ft. According to Bikehike.

 

[oldwheels]

I can't remember now - was his original shop near Bearsden?

Yes, £200+ sounds expensive considering the distance, and you still have to get to Oban to pick it up. However it's less hassle, and as you say, you save a bit on travel and accommodation. Perhaps it would be less expensive to have a bike (presumably a smaller box) shipped to you, and maybe a bike could be shipped using a standard courier. However, some advertised services only cover you for a small amount, so they get more expensive if you add insurance to the value of the bike/trike.

As I said, the ex-demo Street Machine looked to be in nice condition (it was on display shelf). They seem to be very popular as a touring / commuting recumbent. I don't see many recumbents on the road, and those I do see are usually Street Machines on tour from mainland Europe. I've never ridden one so I have no idea what the seat height is like (especially with the under seat steering) or what they'd be like to ride from a stability/balance point of view. It might be worth asking Ben's opinion.

So far as I know the original shop was in a western suburb of Glasgow not too far away from Bearsden.
A standard courier would be no problem and getting to Oban is not expensive for me. I would need to try before buying and if approved could simply take it way then anyway.
I seem to have hijacked this thread but cannot see how to get out of it now.
I do apologise.