Reasons not to wear helmets

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david k

Hi
Location
North West
You have stated you believe its flawed but the limit of the evidence you provided is "because I say it is" So remind me what counter evidence you have put forward

I doubt that saying it again will make any difference. You didn't register the previous N times you have been told the answer to that question.

just like this on tigger
 
Yeah this is the great paradox isn't it?

I don't think many cyclists want to see helmets become compulsory. Yet the majority (I'm guessing here, I don't know the numbers - so please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on what I see in my area) seem to wear helmets.

About 34% for the country as a whole, higher in London, lower outside London
 

Ravenbait

Someone's imaginary friend
Oh FFS.

bangx.gif


Dear Mr David K, Tigger and any and all others querying why there are interminable threads about helmets -- so many, indeed that we need an entire sub-forum to deal with them.

WE, THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WHO DO NOT WEAR HELMETS, DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO OR DO NOT PUT ON YOUR HEAD. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HELMET. WE WILL NOT TAKE IT AWAY FROM YOU. WE WILL NOT TELL YOU THAT YOU SHOULD NOT WEAR ONE.

Please pay careful attention to that last part. We will not say you are stupid for choosing to don a plastic hat. We will not tell you to take it off you plonker. There are many, many things we will not do, all of which are designed to let you exercise your freedom of choice to cycle in your headgear of choice, whether that be a buff, a lid, a sedated cat or half a watermelon.

However. If you should feel the need or urge to tell us that we should wear one, that we would be better off wearing one, that we are morons for not wearing one, that our decision not to wear one results from having been dropped on the head as a baby or having already suffered brain damage through cycle-related head-injury; if you tell us that any accident resulting in persistent vegetative state when no helmet was worn will be our own damn fault; if you tell us that we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to protect ourselves by taking any and all precautions possible because cycling is dangerous; should you inform us that only people who wear helmets should be taken seriously or that helmets are the BEST THINGS EVER ZOMGFFSSBBQ!!!eleventy!!!...

Then, oh then. Then we shall turn around and say, in rather more words than this: prove it. And yes, it is up to you to do so. You are the ones informing us that we are wrong in our decision. All we are doing is asking you to justify that assertion.

In the rational world it is a case of disproving the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis is that helmets are of little to no benefit at all. This hypothesis has not been disproven. If you decide to wear one anyway, then good for you. Yay and rah and waving of the little congratulatory flag. Do not, however, by outright statement or implication, suggest that we who decide differently are wrong, idiotic or asking for it.

Because we're not. We have simply come to a different result in our calculation of the risk:benefit ratio and, oddly enough, the population-level studies largely indicate that we're in the right ballpark. If you wish to justify your decision to wear a helmet, then we'd expect a similar level of evidence, not, as has been provided so far because I feel I'm right and I trust my feelings more than some poncy scientist who just does sums, innit.

Sam
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
Yet the only way we can fight against helmet compulsion is to discredit them as safety equipment.


Well, more or less. We can point out that the vastly exaggerated claims made for them (and not by their manufacturers, who generally have a pretty good idea of what they can do and what they can't do) are vastly exaggerated: the difficulty is that doing that often causes the makers of said claims to get offended, and the resulting argument (you will notice I have carefully avoided saying which side I think "started" the argument) polarises opinion. And then you get fairly pointless threads such as most of this forum in which one side will not admit that helmets may in any circumstance have done any good whatsoever, because they know that someone on the other side will interpret this as an admission that helmets are in general useful and their use should be recommended unconditionally. In real life "it's a bit more complicated than that" (c) Ben Goldacre

I'm perfectly happy to accept that helmets are safety equipment in the same sense that knee, elbow or wrist guards are safety equipment, but strong claims require strong evidence, which in the case of "it will save your life" is still, imo, lacking.
 

Norm

Guest
WE, THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WHO DO NOT WEAR HELMETS, DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO OR DO NOT PUT ON YOUR HEAD. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HELMET. WE WILL NOT TAKE IT AWAY FROM YOU. WE WILL NOT TELL YOU THAT YOU SHOULD NOT WEAR ONE.
There's a part of me grinning manically at saying this, Sam, but I wonder why you've worded the opening line like that. I want to sign up to it too, although I do sometimes wear a lid. :biggrin:
 

david k

Hi
Location
North West
Oh FFS.



Dear Mr David K, Tigger and any and all others
that we are morons for not wearing one, that our decision not to wear one results from having been dropped on the head as a baby or having already suffered brain damage through cycle-related head-injury; if you tell us that any accident resulting in persistent vegetative state when no helmet was worn will be our own damn fault; if you tell us that we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to protect ourselves by taking any and all precautions possible because cycling is dangerous; should you inform us that only people who wear helmets should be taken seriously or that helmets are the BEST THINGS EVER ZOMGFFSSBBQ!!!eleventy!!!...

Then, oh then. Then we shall turn around and say, in rather more words than this: prove it. And yes, it is up to you to do so. You are the ones informing us that we are wrong in our decision. All we are doing is asking you to justify that assertion.


Sam



Well since we havn't made the claims you note you have not need to ask us to prove it, just because i wear one it does not mean i have said you are a moron for choosing not too, so no need to come in with made up suggestions have you?
 
Oh FFS.

Dear Mr David K, Tigger and any and all others querying why there are interminable threads about helmets -- so many, indeed that we need an entire sub-forum to deal with them.

WE, THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WHO DO NOT WEAR HELMETS, DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO OR DO NOT PUT ON YOUR HEAD. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HELMET. WE WILL NOT TAKE IT AWAY FROM YOU. WE WILL NOT TELL YOU THAT YOU SHOULD NOT WEAR ONE.

Please pay careful attention to that last part. We will not say you are stupid for choosing to don a plastic hat. We will not tell you to take it off you plonker. There are many, many things we will not do, all of which are designed to let you exercise your freedom of choice to cycle in your headgear of choice, whether that be a buff, a lid, a sedated cat or half a watermelon.

However. If you should feel the need or urge to tell us that we should wear one, that we would be better off wearing one, that we are morons for not wearing one, that our decision not to wear one results from having been dropped on the head as a baby or having already suffered brain damage through cycle-related head-injury; if you tell us that any accident resulting in persistent vegetative state when no helmet was worn will be our own damn fault; if you tell us that we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to protect ourselves by taking any and all precautions possible because cycling is dangerous; should you inform us that only people who wear helmets should be taken seriously or that helmets are the BEST THINGS EVER ZOMGFFSSBBQ!!!eleventy!!!...

Then, oh then. Then we shall turn around and say, in rather more words than this: prove it. And yes, it is up to you to do so. You are the ones informing us that we are wrong in our decision. All we are doing is asking you to justify that assertion.

In the rational world it is a case of disproving the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis is that helmets are of little to no benefit at all. This hypothesis has not been disproven. If you decide to wear one anyway, then good for you. Yay and rah and waving of the little congratulatory flag. Do not, however, by outright statement or implication, suggest that we who decide differently are wrong, idiotic or asking for it.

Because we're not. We have simply come to a different result in our calculation of the risk:benefit ratio and, oddly enough, the population-level studies largely indicate that we're in the right ballpark. If you wish to justify your decision to wear a helmet, then we'd expect a similar level of evidence, not, as has been provided so far because I feel I'm right and I trust my feelings more than some poncy scientist who just does sums, innit.

Sam


+ lots. Bet we get david k back shortly though asking why we are trying to stop him wearing a helmet :rolleyes:
 
I have not had a particularly bad cycle incident, I don't intend to have one either.

However in the event that I do, I would rather be wearing a cycle helmet than not.

After years of playing rugby I can conclude that if a thinly padded scrum cap can offer protection against a kick in the head, that a padded helmet must offer protection from the tarmac.
 

yello

Guest
it makes a mess of my hair

He's right you know.

I'd love to say something witty and/or erudite, or even informative, about helmets but I have to admit the subject now bores me to rigidity. That said, I've very much enjoyed the contributions of Red Light on the subject. He/she seems to write from a point of clarity and understanding.

I did my reading up and came to my own decision some time ago. I keep in touch with the debate but little has changed and I don't see a definitive 'case proven' argument either way. Until such a time, I can only do what everyone else if free to do and make up my own mind.

I do not mind what people make of my decision nor am I judgemental about theirs... but I do look bloody silly in my helmet.
 
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