Questions about building my first bike

[ColinJ]

Are you implying that I won't get anything decent unless I go for V brakes, so I'll need to use these? Or ...?

No ... You said that you thought you were right in saying that you couldn't use V-brakes and I'm saying yes, you are right unless you want to fit v-brakes and are willing to spend about £30 for those Travel Agent widgets to make them work properly!

 

[lulubel]

No ... You said that you thought you were right in saying that you couldn't use V-brakes and I'm saying yes, you are right unless you want to fit v-brakes and are willing to spend about £30 for those Travel Agent widgets to make them work properly!

Ah, OK. There doesn't seem to be much point in messing around for the sake of it, assuming cantis will stop it. I've ruled out Tektro based on people saying they've replaced their Tektros with Avids, and I haven't found much in the ways of reviews for Shimano's 105 version.

 

[simon.r]

As an alternative to the Travel Agents you could use Dia-Compe 287V levers with V brakes, but then you'll need separate shifters - bar-end would be the obvious choice.

Personally, and I suspect that many will disagree with me, I think there were good reasons why cantilevers were largely replaced by V brakes in the MTB world - ease of set-up and the fact that they work much better being the main two. Having said that, cantis are still widely used in Cyclocross, so they must have something going for them - can anyone put the case for cantis?

Another option would be to build your bike with flat bars, which would mean you could use V brakes and have a wide choice of levers / shifters...decisions, decisions

BTW - you're right that linear pull is just another word for V brakes.

 

[lulubel]

As an alternative to the Travel Agents you could use Dia-Compe 287V levers with V brakes, but then you'll need separate shifters - bar-end would be the obvious choice.

Personally, and I suspect that many will disagree with me, I think there were good reasons why cantilevers were largely replaced by V brakes in the MTB world - ease of set-up and the fact that they work much better being the main two. Having said that, cantis are still widely used in Cyclocross, so they must have something going for them - can anyone put the case for cantis?

Another option would be to build your bike with flat bars, which would mean you could use V brakes and have a wide choice of levers / shifters...decisions, decisions

It looks like I'll be going with cantis, then. I will never, ever give up my drop bars - just 2 days on the MTB so far have been horrible with the flat bars - and I like being able to ride (either on the hoods or the drops) with my fingers over the brake levers and shifters at the same time. Even though I'm using a frame that is sold as a cross frame/commuter/light tourer, I'm primarily building a road bike, and I want to keep the modern road bike feel to the controls.

I always assumed the reason cantis are used on cross bikes is because they're less likely to get clogged up and jammed with mud than callipers, although that won't be an issue for me even if I do go off-road. Presumably modern cantis must be good enough to stop with in most conditions that cross riders face, or they would have found an alternative long before now.

 

[Crackle]

Mini v brakes are compatible with road levers and supposedly better than Canti's.

Edit: Mind you, just reading this, contradicts that slightly.

 

[lulubel]

Mini v brakes are compatible with road levers and supposedly better than Canti's.

Edit: Mind you, just reading this, contradicts that slightly.

It seems like you can find arguments for and against everything!

I think I'll go for the Avid Shorty 6. They're not cheap, but generally reviewed as being "better than other cantis." (Apparently, they are reversible - you just have to swap the part that holds the pads over to turn a rear into a front and vise versa.)

 

[VamP]

It seems like you can find arguments for and against everything!

I think I'll go for the Avid Shorty 6. They're not cheap, but generally reviewed as being "better than other cantis." (Apparently, they are reversible - you just have to swap the part that holds the pads over to turn a rear into a front and vise versa.)

If you can at all afford it go for the Shorty Ultimates. They are THE best canti brake out there, bar none. Canti's persevere in cyclocross because the sport does not have high braking demand, and the traction on typical CX terrain means that you run out of tyre on ground grip before you run out of brakepad on rim grip.

Be prepared to be disappointed by cantilever brake performance compared to calliper...

FWIW I have the Shorty 6 on my training/spare bike, and will be replacing them for next season with Ultimates, which I am using on my starting bike. They are much, much better, both in performance and ease of adjustability.

 

[lulubel]

If you can at all afford it go for the Shorty Ultimates. They are THE best canti brake out there, bar none. Canti's persevere in cyclocross because the sport does not have high braking demand, and the traction on typical CX terrain means that you run out of tyre on ground grip before you run out of brakepad on rim grip.

Be prepared to be disappointed by cantilever brake performance compared to calliper...

So, I thought I'd made up my mind, and now I'm unsure again

I've never been very impressed with callipers, to be honest. I can lock the wheels on a wet road on the drops without trying, but I've never been happy braking on the hoods. I'll actually get on the drops for extra braking power going downhill through town, when I'd rather be on the hoods for better visibility.

The one thing I am liking about my MTB at the moment is the brakes. Maybe I should take another look at that gadget Colin suggested. If I'm considering paying £70+ each, the gadget plus V brakes could easily work out less, and for better stopping power if it actually works as described.

You can - if you fit a Travel Agent ... available here.

Colin, have you used these?

 

[VamP]

Why not go for one of the disc versions of cross frames? The Disc Trucker springs to mind if you want to stay with the brand, and there's lots more out there.

I am not sure whether you're using an existing wheelset, but if you're getting new wheels might as well make the switch to discs painlessly.

Personally, in your shoes I would be looking at this but then I am a big fan of the brand. I am pretty sure someone like Winstanley's will ship to Spain. I see they're at £530 including the exceptionally good CX fork (and headset).

 

[lulubel]

I've already ordered the frame, and it's on its way. I did look at the Disc Trucker, but in the end decided the trucker was a bit "too sensible", and all the other frames I looked at (and I looked at everything that was brought up in my other thread) was either not all steel, not available in small enough sizes or more than I could afford, that last one being the biggest sticking point.

As it happens, I'm building my own wheels now, so I could have built them to whatever size I wanted, but I'm happy with the frame I've chosen. I just need to make sure I'm happy with my brakes as well.

 

[ColinJ]

Colin, have you used these?

Sorry, I haven't, but I did a search and found lots of people recommending them. I also found people who said that they had found them fiddly to set up properly and had given up so it sounds as though you need to be careful how you do it. A bit more searching found this thread on another forum. One guy posts detailed instructions which I have copied here:

-----------------Begin Instructions----------------------
Installation (Cable Travel Doubler setting)
1. Remove and recycle old cable, housing and cable noodle.
2. Place the travel agent in your linear-pull brake's noodle carrier,
cut a new piece of housing to the appropriate length, and string brake
cable through the lever and housing.
3. Remove the travel agent from the brake's noodle carrier.
4. Feed the brake cable though [sic] the innermost cable hole, make
sure the housing is firmly seated at both ends, pull any cable slack
taut, and get ready to wrap the cable around the inner cable pulley.
5. Find the hole in the pulley that bridges the inner cable pulley to
the outer cable pulley (the "bridging" hole) and aim this hole at the
two o'clock position.
6. Feed the cable around the inner pulley and through the bridging
hole.
7. Again make sure that both ends of the housing are properly seated
and pull the cable taut once more. Make sure that the bridging hole is
still aimed at the two o'clock position.
8. Now feed the cable counter-clockwise around the outer cable pulley
and through the cable exit hole.
9. Pop the travel agent back into the brake's noodle carrier, then
pull the cable as taut as possible and attach it to the brake arm.
10. Squeeze the brake lever firmly several times to seat the cable
properly in the travel agent, then adjust the brake per the brake
manufacturer's instructions for proper brake pad clearance.
11. Increased brake arm spring tension may be required to make the
brakes return properly.

WARNINGS:
[ColinJ: where is warning 1?]

2. ...The position of the bridging hole will change as the brake cable
stretches, but if properly set up, should not vary beyond an
acceptable limit. If the position of the bridging hole ever wanders
past the 5 o'clock position, stop riding the bike immediately, thread
the adjusting barrel all the way down, and reset the travel agent to
its original specification as described above.

------------End of Instructions-----------------

I replaced the original cantis on my first MTB with v-brakes and I much preferred the vees. I never liked the appearance of cantilever brakes and found mine had a 'spongey' feel. The v-brakes looked better, felt better and worked better!

 

[lulubel]

Sorry, I haven't, but I did a search and found lots of people recommending them. I also found people who said that they had found them fiddly to set up properly and had given up so it sounds as though you need to be careful how you do it. A bit more searching found this thread on another forum.

I replaced the original cantis on my first MTB with v-brakes and I much preferred the vees. I never liked the appearance of cantilever brakes and found mine had a 'spongey' feel. The v-brakes looked better, felt better and worked better!

Thanks. The instructions you posted sound pretty similar to the Park Tools page you linked. It doesn't sound too complicated, but probably a case of making sure you follow the instructions carefully, and not trying to figure it out on your own!

One question: when he refers to "housing" in the instructions, does he mean the plastic outer part of the cable?

 

[ColinJ]

One question: when he refers to "housing" in the instructions, does he mean the plastic outer part of the cable?

Yes, which for obvious reasons we normally simply call an 'outer'!

 

[lulubel]

Yes, which for obvious reasons we normally simply call an 'outer'!

Great. Time to look at V brakes, then. Since I'm planning to build my own wheels, I don't think I should be put off by fitting one of those.

 

[ColinJ]

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with your wheels. It's a job that I always thought would be a bit too demanding for me to tackle but I think your example might encourage a few of us to have a go. I have to either fix an old rear wheel or replace it so if it turns out to be uneconomical to repair it, I might try building one.