Out of balance Hunt carbon wheels?

[Ajax Bay]

partner's Liv Langma had a wheel collapse in the front wheel when the bike was new due to unequal spoke tensions.

Have you an idea how the 'unequal spoke tensions' of this Giant front wheel cause the wheel to collapse? The average spoke tension on the left will be the same (assume same number of spokes left and right and rim-braked wheel) as the average spoke tension on the right.

 

[monkers]

Have you an idea how the 'unequal spoke tensions' of this Giant front wheel cause the wheel to collapse? The average spoke tension on the left will be the same (assume same number of spokes left and right and rim-braked wheel) as the average spoke tension on the right.

Yes actually. That didn't stop me from listening to the technician at the Giant store though saying that they'd seen a number of these wheels collapse in the same way; that the problem was already diagnosed by Giant as unequal/incorrect spoke tension. He also rebuilt the back wheel at the same time because that had a similar problem. He apologised for the bike being delivered in that condition. He hadn't done the PDI but the 'mountain bike guy' had who wasn't familiar with the build problems with these particular wheels.

Anyway, this thread is not about me, it's about the quality of Hunt wheels which really ought to be better at any price point for such safety related components. The Giant PR2 wheels seem very poor too, and having read poor reviews on other giant wheelsets, I'll avoid those too.

The budget Bontrager wheels (about £140 per pair on my Emonda are beautifully built in as much the spoke tensions never seem to change, and the wheels are as true as the day I bought the bike. They are built on Formula hubs which are poorly sealed - I often have to dismantle them to clean them out and regrease them, but that's another matter, maybe for another thread on another day.

The Campag Zonda wheels are pretty special IMHO and as I'm on the point of buying new wheels for the Emonda, they are definitely on my short list at £375.

 

[matticus]

Have you an idea how the 'unequal spoke tensions' of this Giant front wheel cause the wheel to collapse? The average spoke tension on the left will be the same (assume same number of spokes left and right and rim-braked wheel) as the average spoke tension on the right.

The averages could match perfectly between left/right - but with large variations, the rim could still wobble all over the place, or even collapse/pringle.

 

[Ajax Bay]

You're right Matt. I failed to specify a wheel which was true (to ride). I assume Monkers' partner's front wheel failed while they were riding it and therefore roughly (at least) true.

 

[monkers]

You're right Matt. I failed to specify a wheel which was true (to ride). I assume Monkers' partner's front wheel failed while they were riding it and therefore roughly (at least) true.

Yes, indeed, as I had said, there was vibration shortly before the collapse. She was looking for a safe place to stop and investigate; she slowed down, but then the wheel collapsed without further warning and was unrideable. The spokes in the back wheel were not just unequal but all of them were below specified tension. She is confident that the wheels seemed true when she'd spun them by hand before setting out.

Once home with the bike from the shop, she ordered new wheels, tyres, cassette and brake rotors, intending to keep the Giants as a winter set, but after ordering the new ones she had multiple punctures in the Giant tubeless tyres; they've not been back on the bike since. Bontrager AW3 tyres now with tubes on the Zondas - no more wheel issues or punctures since.

 

[Buck]

One things for sure, if they are not right when I get them back then they are being returned for a refund. No way will I return them for second time to have a new rim fitted to the rear wheel.

Very disappointing so far for a wheel set that costs so much and the fact that they knew there was a potential spoke tension issue is even more disappointing to be honest.

Alan, did you get the wheels back from Hunt and if so, how are they now? Hopefully sorted.

 

[AlanW]

Alan, did you get the wheels back from Hunt and if so, how are they now? Hopefully sorted.

My apologies, I need mean to update the thread. The conclusion after the first return was the spoke tension was not uniform on both wheels and was causing the imbalance issue.

However, when they were returned to me they still felt the exact same, so then I started to question if it was in my head or not? So I gave them to a good friend to ride for a week. His conclusion was that while he did experience what he thought was my problem, the advantages of the wheels far outweighed any potential out of balance problems.

So with that in mind I carried on with the wheels but the out of balance niggle was still there so I returned them once again back to Hunt for a second time. The report came back that they "were not 100% round" and the spoke tension was out again?

I've since had them back and have clocked up another couple of hundred miles. So the questions...are they any better?

Well either they have resolved it or my head has now accepted it, I truthfully just don't know?

What I do know, is that when I do the spin down test with the bike in a work stand the bike still behaviors exactly the same as they did in day one. Which and as I've said before, none of my other wheels behave the same.

But that aside, they are a great set of wheels and the make climbing so much more enjoyable. Which I suppose goes right back to what my friend said, that advantages far outweigh any disadvantages that I think there might be.

 

[fossyant]

They shouldn't do what you describe. I don't even get that with my MTB wheels and rather heavy tyres (where there can be balance issues) - they just don't wobble the bike at all. Road wheels, definitely not.

Personally that's too out of balance and you'll notice it at speed.

 

[monkers]

My apologies, I need mean to update the thread. The conclusion after the first return was the spoke tension was not uniform on both wheels and was causing the imbalance issue.

However, when they were returned to me they still felt the exact same, so then I started to question if it was in my head or not? So I gave them to a good friend to ride for a week. His conclusion was that while he did experience what he thought was my problem, the advantages of the wheels far outweighed any potential out of balance problems.

So with that in mind I carried on with the wheels but the out of balance niggle was still there so I returned them once again back to Hunt for a second time. The report came back that they "were not 100% round" and the spoke tension was out again?

I've since had them back and have clocked up another couple of hundred miles. So the questions...are they any better?

Well either they have resolved it or my head has now accepted it, I truthfully just don't know?

What I do know, is that when I do the spin down test with the bike in a work stand the bike still behaviors exactly the same as they did in day one. Which and as I've said before, none of my other wheels behave the same.

But that aside, they are a great set of wheels and the make climbing so much more enjoyable. Which I suppose goes right back to what my friend said, that advantages far outweigh any disadvantages that I think there might be.

Thank you for updating the thread - I'm fascinated from an engineering standpoint and a consumer standpoint.

As I said before, I was in the market for new wheels and having heard previous reports of high speed of so-called 'death wobbles' attributed to these wheels, and then having watched the Bikotic video that I linked to, I decided to avoid. I'm so glad I did.

I won't get carried away as I did before, will try not to distract the thread, but I'll just quickly update what we two did.

The Liv Langma with the poor quality wheels got a new front wheel under warranty. It was on the bike for about a hundred miles with the Giant tyres. The front hub self-destructed in that time - the bearing cups had no hardness and the seals do not prevent the ingress of grit. The tyres punctured again. The Campag Zonda wheels (DB) have been excellent - lighter, stiffer, comfortable, and look good too. Both sets of Bontrager tyres - AW3s and R3s have been flawless. The wheels were about £375 and in my opinion a bargain.

The Emonda is now on Campag Zonda black edition wheels with Vittoria Corsa tyres. They cost £325 and have been perfect. Again light, stiff and handsome. Without even trying, we climb hills more effortlessly and enjoyably than with the original equipment.

I hear what you say about the balance of advantages and disadvantages and understand your quandry. If it was me, I'd return them to Hunt as not fit for purpose. There must be other wheels out there you can replace the Hunts with that will climb well without the risk of the dreaded speed wobble and the discomfort of imbalance.

Whatever you decide, good luck friend.

 

[AlanW]

It is a very difficult call, and Hunt have offered me a complete new set of wheels and have also extended the return date of 90 days if not 100% happy by a further 30 days. So its very clear that they want the customer to be happy.

As for purchasing another set from A N Other manufacturer, but for the money there is nothing in the same league as the Hunt wheels to be honest, which is another reason I went for the Hunt wheels in the first place. In my small circle of regular riding friends, four other riders have the exact same wheel set and are perfectly happy with them and have experienced zero issues, least of all any out of balance related issues

 

[T4tomo]

and Hunt have offered me a complete new set of wheels

four other riders have the exact same wheel set and are perfectly happy with them and have experienced zero issues, least of all any out of balance related issues

I'd be having myself a new set then.

 

[fossyant]

Get new. They really shouldn't be shaking the bike like that. You've tested them without tyres and tubes, as long valves can upset the balance, but nothing like that.

It's a lot of money for something that's substandard.

 

[Arrowfoot]

My apologies, I need mean to update the thread. The conclusion after the first return was the spoke tension was not uniform on both wheels and was causing the imbalance issue.

However, when they were returned to me they still felt the exact same, so then I started to question if it was in my head or not? So I gave them to a good friend to ride for a week. His conclusion was that while he did experience what he thought was my problem, the advantages of the wheels far outweighed any potential out of balance problems.

So with that in mind I carried on with the wheels but the out of balance niggle was still there so I returned them once again back to Hunt for a second time. The report came back that they "were not 100% round" and the spoke tension was out again?

I've since had them back and have clocked up another couple of hundred miles. So the questions...are they any better?

Well either they have resolved it or my head has now accepted it, I truthfully just don't know?

What I do know, is that when I do the spin down test with the bike in a work stand the bike still behaviors exactly the same as they did in day one. Which and as I've said before, none of my other wheels behave the same.

But that aside, they are a great set of wheels and the make climbing so much more enjoyable. Which I suppose goes right back to what my friend said, that advantages far outweigh any disadvantages that I think there might be.

Turn the bike upside down, resting on the saddle. Crank the rear wheel. You can clearly see if it true. Look at the tyres near the bottom bracket and you can see better as the edges are closer. You cannot see anything while on the stand.

 

[Buck]

It is a very difficult call, and Hunt have offered me a complete new set of wheels and have also extended the return date of 90 days if not 100% happy by a further 30 days. So its very clear that they want the customer to be happy.

As for purchasing another set from A N Other manufacturer, but for the money there is nothing in the same league as the Hunt wheels to be honest, which is another reason I went for the Hunt wheels in the first place. In my small circle of regular riding friends, four other riders have the exact same wheel set and are perfectly happy with them and have experienced zero issues, least of all any out of balance related issues

Why not swap out for another pair of Hunt so that you can compare "like for like".

I can understand all the pluses for these wheels but I'd want to at least try a second set of the same model in the hope that this eradicates the balance issue.

This feels like a "no brainer" - nothing to lose?

 

[AlanW]

This feels like a "no brainer" - nothing to lose?

You are of course 100% correct, I have nothing to lose. So with that in mind, I've since contacted Hunt this morning and requested a replacement set of wheels. Lets see how the replacement set fair?