Obesity

[Fab Foodie]

If i am making Cottage Pie or Spag bol I normally use mice from the butcher
previously I would get it from the supermarket - generally the most expensive version - 5% far rather than than the cheaper 20% fat

using the mince from the butcher there is not enough fat coming out of the meat for my wife to make gravy

using the best supermarket meat she has loads

same with sausages - loads of fat comes out of the premium supermarket version
butcher - naff all

and the stuff from the butcher tastes much better
and is cheaper

but all the advertising tends to point us to the supermarket - and CLEARLY they premium versions just MUST be better

pity we don;t have a greengrocer on the high street - I just feel lucky a butcher has survived

Now, just a thought....
Salt is very important in making meat products. In my experience, UK manufacturers of sausages and bacon are right at the lower end of the functionality range which means poor water and fat binding. Butchers tend to have higher salt contents and more stable products...less water and fat seepage.
It’s a perfect case in point where a certain level of salt is required to maje the product work properly. Cheese is another good example, especially blue cheese where salt level is crirltical in ensuringbthe correct microbial and fungal microflora. You can’t make low salt Stilton.

 

[Reynard]

Now, just a thought....
Salt is very important in making meat products. In my experience, UK manufacturers of sausages and bacon are right at the lower end of the functionality range which means poor water and fat binding. Butchers tend to have higher salt contents and more stable products...less water and fat seepage.
It’s a perfect case in point where a certain level of salt is required to maje the product work properly. Cheese is another good example, especially blue cheese where salt level is crirltical in ensuringbthe correct microbial and fungal microflora. You can’t make low salt Stilton.

Low salt bread is also challenging to make because the salt acts as a "handbrake" on the yeast. 2% salt is where I'm at when baking.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Ok, an extreme and thus, unrealistic example.

No not really. It’s realistic enough. I’m not sure what you’re digging at here?
People on benefits are likely poor. Not all people that are poor are on benefits. I chose one as an example.

 

[Reynard]

Very definitely; so do I - but that I think is because I don't eat them 'normally'. If they were a regular part of my staple diet, I'm sure I'd've become accustomed to the levels of salt or sugar long ago, and would use considerably more salt and sugar in my home cooking. As it is I use minute quantities of salt - I honestly can't remember when I last bought salt - probably when I was doing a lot of dyeing with fibre-reactive dyes! - and frequently cut down on the supposedly-'required' amount of sugar when baking - it depends where the recipe comes from.

Most of the salt I buy goes into bread.

I am a keen yellow sticker-er, but much prefer to buy fresh ingredients. Had some brilliant scores on Saturday night in terms of meat, fish and fresh fruit & veg.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Low salt bread is also challenging to make because the salt acts as a "handbrake" on the yeast. 2% salt is where I'm at when baking.

Salt also impacts the strength and elasticity of the gluten as well which impacts baking performance.
As you may be able to see, some ingredients have vital (no pun) roles in certain food products, so low salt versions are not a simple act of reducing salt, which means other ingredient ‘additives’ might be required.
A lot of gluten-free products rely on Xanthan gum to replace the role of gluten, but Xanthan would be frowned upon in other products as an adulterant....

 

[Reynard]

Salt also impacts the strength and elasticity of the gluten as well which impacts baking performance.
As you may be able to see, some ingredients have vital (no pun) roles in certain food products, so low salt versions are not a simple act of reducing salt, which means other ingredient ‘additives’ might be required.
A lot of gluten-free products rely on Xanthan gum to replace the role of gluten, but Xanthan would be frowned upon in other products....

Well, it's been a good while since I've baked a frisbee, so I must be doing something right

Same is true of the role of salt in curing meat and fish. If you don't use enough, the product spoils.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Well, it's been a good while since I've baked a frisbee, so I must be doing something right

Same is true of the role of salt in curing meat and fish. If you don't use enough, the product spoils.

Correct, if you don’t use enough sugar or acid when making Jam it doesn’t set or goes mouldy quickly.
Food is complex chemistry with a lot of emotional baggage.
It’s much misunderstood....

Much of my work revolves around reducing sugar, salt, additives and allergens from very well known global products but without reducing the pleasureable attributes.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I mostly disagree.
I travel weekly to different countries on business every week, and I can tell you that salt levels in particular are much higher in food outside the UK. In some, fat is much higher. I would say that UK processed food and restaurant food is among the lowest in salt content in Europe.

Oh, I don't think the food in all countries has the same levels of salt and sugar at all; I've lived on three continents and in more than a dozen countries and everywhere is different. But I contend that processed/ fast/junk food in X country will generally be of a higher fat, salt and sugar content than traditional, good-quality home cooked food and 'proper' (not fast-food/takeaway type) restaurant food in X country (individual ingredients, such as salt cod, or jaggery, not withstanding, of course!).
I also agree that the UK processed food industry is now doing a pretty decent job in reducing the sodium content of food - but it didn't use to, and we're still battling through a large proportion of the population who have taste buds which demand/prefer/are accustomed to a high salt content, as well as a high sugar content in many items - even quite unexpected ones - and a specific type of 'mouth-feel' - the accustomisation due largely to the high fat/salt/sugar content of the foods they used to eat (and often still do, from takeaway and suchlike, rather than from supermarkets). In other words, much of the current harm results from what was accepted practice in the past.

 

[Reynard]

Correct, if you don’t use enough sugar or acid when making Jam it doesn’t set or goes mouldy quickly.
Food is complex chemistry with a lot of emotional baggage.
It’s much misunderstood....

Much of my work revolves around reducing sugar, salt, additives and allergens from very well known global products but without reducing the pleasureable attributes.

Well, I do make my own jams, marmalades and chutneys - usually for jams & marmalades, that's 1 part sugar to 1 part fruit. I think that's about the lowest you can go without encountering problems. I seal while still very hot, and stuff keeps for years in a cool dark place.

I notice that commercially made preserves have considerably more sugar in. Guess there's a tipping point between shelf life, profit and palatibility.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Most of the salt I buy goes into bread.

I am a keen yellow sticker-er, but much prefer to buy fresh ingredients. Had some brilliant scores on Saturday night in terms of meat, fish and fresh fruit & veg.

I used to love making bread, but I regularly make my own yoghurt, and sometimes cheese, so I've stopped - and stopped wine-making, too - as I had too much cross-contamination happening since I moved here with a much smaller kitchen and less space in general. I can buy decent bread fairly locally, but there's nothing like my own yoghurt and soft cheeses - and they're no good if they're contaminated with bread and wine yeasts!

 

[Reynard]

I used to love making bread, but I regularly make my own yoghurt, and sometimes cheese, so I've stopped - and stopped wine-making, too - as I had too much cross-contamination happening since I moved here with a much smaller kitchen and less space in general. I can buy decent bread fairly locally, but there's nothing like my own yoghurt and soft cheeses - and they're no good if they're contaminated with bread and wine yeasts!

Although historically, bread was raised with beer barm until bakers' yeast came along. Breweries and bakeries were usually next door to each other.

Maybe if you bring the cheese, I'll bring the bread and the chutney

 

[KnittyNorah]

Although historically, bread was raised with beer barm until bakers' yeast came along. Breweries and bakeries were usually next door to each other.

Maybe if you bring the cheese, I'll bring the bread and the chutney

Ah but that's why I gave up making bread - the bread and the booze (wine in my case) were happy together - or at least I didn't have problems - but the bread and booze yeasts were contaminating the dairy stuff. Not nice! Mainly, I have to confess, due to my somewhat slap-dash housekeeping - but keeping my dairy equipment free from significant yeast contamination in a large and spacious kitchen was a LOT easier than doing the same in my 'new' (tiny, cramped) kitchen. So I decontaminated the entire room and its contents with dairy disinfectant and gave away my bread-making and brewing equipment.
I seem to be able to pickle-ferment veggies alongside my dairy stuff without a cross-contamination issue, but that's mainly a lactic-acid type of fermentation, not a yeast process as is both bread and booze.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Oops what happened? Sorry!

 

[winjim]

I've just been doing a bit of maths. Someone upthread was considering the comparison between a Domino's pizza and an Italian 'artisan' pizza. Now, every Saturday night at our house is pizza night. All homemade from scratch, dough in the breadmaker, sauce in the pressure cooker, kids can choose their own toppings, family film, bottle of wine, you get the idea. Not artisan but maybe not far off, so I thought I'd do a comparison.

My usual toppings are: chargrilled onions and peppers, olives, capers, ham, sultanas, mozarella. I added everything up and that gives me 19.3g fat and 2.24g salt. Most of the fat is from olive oil so a good amount will be unsaturated I think. An Italian artisan might drizzle a little more on top as well. A comparable pizza from Domino's might be something like the Veggie Supreme (ham notwithstanding). A small, 9.5", with an Italian style base gives you 22.4g fat with 3.29g salt. So not far off in absolute terms although that's a bit deceptive because it actually a 47% increase in salt, so a fair amount.

But. But but but. If I have a Domino's I don't have a veggie supreme. I'm not trying to recreate an artisanal Italian wood fired pizza. American and Italian pizzas are different dishes. If I have a Domino's, I'm having a Pepperoni Passion on a classic base. That's a proper dirty takeaway pizza. Dirty and fatty and salty and delicious and a million miles away from either an Italian artisan or a homemade pizza with the kids. A small Pepperoni Passion on a classic base gets you a whopping 58.5g fat and a full 6.57g salt. Given that RDA for fat is 44-77g, assuming a 2000kcal/day intake, and RDA for salt is 6g, that's a pretty heavy going meal. So it depends on what you order but if I was having American rather than Italian pizza I would definitely be tempted towards the high fat, high salt option. And that's without even considering things like stuffed crust and that little pot of garlic mayo they give you...



Note: I have gone for 'small' here from Domino's as that's probably comparable to the size of pizza I make at home which is about 11" but a bit thinner. That does give you the highest values from their nutrition table. Their portion sizes are a bit weird depending on what size you order but I reckon I could manage an entire small pizza over the course of a film.

 

[Reynard]

Ah but that's why I gave up making bread - the bread and the booze (wine in my case) were happy together - or at least I didn't have problems - but the bread and booze yeasts were contaminating the dairy stuff. Not nice! Mainly, I have to confess, due to my somewhat slap-dash housekeeping - but keeping my dairy equipment free from significant yeast contamination in a large and spacious kitchen was a LOT easier than doing the same in my 'new' (tiny, cramped) kitchen. So I decontaminated the entire room and its contents with dairy disinfectant and gave away my bread-making and brewing equipment.
I seem to be able to pickle-ferment veggies alongside my dairy stuff without a cross-contamination issue, but that's mainly a lactic-acid type of fermentation, not a yeast process as is both bread and booze.

I'm teetotal, and the only cheese I make is cream / cottage cheese if I've got milk about to go t*ts up.

But I only have a galley kitchen, so I know where you're coming from in terms of lack-of-space.

I couldn't give up baking bread.