New wheels worth it or not

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boydj

Legendary Member
Location
Paisley
I'd put the £600 into an investment account for now until you are thinner, fitter and experienced enough for good wheels to make a significant difference. Or spend the £600 on a cycling training camp, which would be much more beneficial to your cycling.
 
OP
OP
Jason.T

Jason.T

Senior Member
Well I've got a set of fulcrum racing 1's on that I swapped around with a mate tonight so will try them out tomorrow after work to see if I can actually feel the difference

I'm glad I've got the chance to do this as I won't be forcing myself to believe there better if there not as there not mine
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Lighter/Better wheels will certainly make a difference even if you (like me) are overweight.
I also have some CXP22s on Ultegra hubs that are (bombproof) waaay heavier than my summer Reynolds wheels and the difference in ride feel, speed, handling etc is notable.
I would really suggest talking to a wheel builder like Harry Rowland or David at DCR Wheels who could build you something to match your weight and riding needs.
 
OP
OP
Jason.T

Jason.T

Senior Member
Ok so tried out my mate fulcrum racing 1 wheels today

Firstly these wheels are his knock about training wheels that are about 5 years old, a little bit of bearing noise coming from them on Michelin pro 4 tyres

He did say they would perform better with a decent tyre but I should still tell the difference

Anyway, I done 28 miles picking gradual climbs steep climbs flats and descents

I did notice quite a difference to be honest, firstly although I tried to ride as normally as possible my avarage speed was up by quite a bit but I probably was unconsciously pushing harder and the wheels made me feel like I wanted to push harder

On climbs they were slightly better but to be truthfull not a game changer (seated)

I found them a much smother ride absorbing the bumps and rough bits very very well

On descents they probably weren't any quicker

On flats they seem to roll much better and smoother and this is probably where my avarage speed was up as they did feel pretty fast

The biggest difference I noticed was in 2 areas, climbing out of the saddle was pretty impressive and really did shoot me up the climbs, the other was acceleration they did seem to get me up to speed pretty damn quick with not a great deal of effort

Handeling was more responsive and felt more confident in fast down hill bends

I rode these trying to be un biased and glad I had the chance as not to convince myself they were good because i forked out my own cash

The main thing I was looking at with upgrading wheels is avarage speed and although it was quite a bit more I'm sure I wouldn't maintain that on every ride as I said earlier I was probably pushing harder than normal in places

The campagnolo shamal's I'm looking at are £600 on sale from £900 and supposed to be a bit better than the racing 1's (basics they are the racing zeros)

Although I've mention more positive points than non I'm still undecided if a upgrade is worth forking out £600 as I could probably ride the increased avarage speed with my current wheels it would just be more effort in doing so

My current wheels do roll very well indeed and my mate who's a very seasoned cyclist said so himself tonight (he has my wheels while I have his)

I'll keep hold of them for a little while and do a few rides and see if the positives continue to show
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
If you have the spare cash and you really want to then do it.
My road bike came with similar wheels as yours and I bought some more expensive ones as an upgrade even though it was not necessary but because I could.
 

RussellZero

Wannabe Stravati
And there I think is my dilemma as well - Ive upgraded my bike this year and gone for a full carbon, which I love, and notice the difference big time especially climbing. Its got basic wheels and I keep lusting after racing zeros or similar - BUT - the other day when I took the old bike out and set myself a pr up one of the hardest hills in the area, the feeling of achievement was that much more. And now when I go out on the carbon at similar speeds to the old bike, I know Im probably using quite a bit less effort to do it - which kind of goes against one of the reasons I love cycling in the first place. So my thoughts are you should have a training bike which is basic and doesnt mind being a bit overweight, giving you a better workout, and a special bike for when you want to do events and races, so you get the benefit of additional speed for the same effort.

It i just a thought though, I sold my old bike, because the temptation to use the carbon one always wins, just as I know when the time's right Im going to go buy some racing zeros :-)
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
If you've got a stone to lose then doing that will give you far more improvement that any amount of wheels, latex whatsits, carbon seatposts etc

But if you don't want to lose the weight or can't for whatever reason then why not? It is probably the best bang for your buck on your bike weight wise. But I'd concentrate on losing the body weight if I were you instead of looking for a silver bullet of speed improvement
 

Spoked Wheels

Legendary Member
Location
Bournemouth
[QUOTE 3229457, member: 259"]Either spend £600 on new wheels or lose a couple of pounds off the spare tyre for rather less![/QUOTE]
I think you need to lose rather more than a couple of pounds though.

The weight difference of the two sets is huge and he would certainly notice it. He will get used to the wheels but if he needs a reminder he can fit the old wheels and ride :laugh: Losing 100gr from the outer area of a wheel makes more difference to climbing than anywhere else on the bike. Tyres and tubes are a really good investment but if you are very heavy then you will still find it rather hard going up those hills.

On the other hand, I've lost 24kg since November and that is the biggest difference I've noticed. Not even a 6.5kg bike would have made such a difference.
Somebody mentioned wheel repair and the OP would be advised to consider that cause it can be expensive to repair factory wheels and also difficult to find somebody willing to do the work. I have enough experience fixing factory wheels that I refuse to touch some of them...... even truing some factory wheels is a pig job.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
I think you need to lose rather more than a couple of pounds though.

The weight difference of the two sets is huge and he would certainly notice it. He will get used to the wheels but if he needs a reminder he can fit the old wheels and ride :laugh: Losing 100gr from the outer area of a wheel makes more difference to climbing than anywhere else on the bike. Tyres and tubes are a really good investment but if you are very heavy then you will still find it rather hard going up those hills.

On the other hand, I've lost 24kg since November and that is the biggest difference I've noticed. Not even a 6.5kg bike would have made such a difference.
Somebody mentioned wheel repair and the OP would be advised to consider that cause it can be expensive to repair factory wheels and also difficult to find somebody willing to do the work. I have enough experience fixing factory wheels that I refuse to touch some of them...... even truing some factory wheels is a pig job.

It doesn't matter where you lose weight on the bike or the rider regarding its effect on climbing. A kg is a kg. There is a slight benefit in terms of acceleration in reducing the rotational mass (ie the wheels) over other bits of the bike but cycling acceleration is glacial so the effect is really tiny

Congratulations on the weight loss, that will have had more effect that buying a £10K featherweight bike
 

moo

Veteran
Location
North London
I shaved 110g from the outer edge of each wheel on my weekend bike by switching to lightweight tyres and tubes. From what I've read, most wheels have similar weight rims due to strength requirements. You're only paying for lighter hubs, where a weight saving is less important. Most people comparing cheap and expensive wheels neglect to mention they also have cheap and expensive tyres/tubes fitted.
 

SpokeyDokey

68, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
This is an interesting extract:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

Advantages of light wheels[edit]
The advantage of light bikes, and particularly light wheels, from a KE standpoint is that KE only comes into play when speed changes, and there are certainly two cases where lighter wheels should have an advantage: sprints, and corner jumps in a criterium.[18]

In a 250 m sprint from 36 to 47 km/h to (22 to 29 mph), a 90 kg bike/rider with 1.75 kg of rims/tires/spokes increases KE by 6,360 joules (6.4 kilocalories burned). Shaving 500 g from the rims/tires/spokes reduces this KE by 35 joules (1 kilocalorie = 1.163 watt-hour). The impact of this weight saving on speed or distance is rather difficult to calculate, and requires assumptions about rider power output and sprint distance. The Analytic Cycling web site allows this calculation, and gives a time/distance advantage of 0.16 s/188 cm for a sprinter who shaves 500 g off their wheels. If that weight went to make an aero wheel that was worth 0.03 mph (0.05 km/h) at 25 mph (40 km/h), the weight savings would be canceled by the aerodynamic advantage. For reference, the best aero bicycle wheels are worth about 0.4 mph (0.6 km/h) at 25, and so in this sprint would handily beat a set of wheels weighing 500 g less.

In a criterium race, a rider is often jumping out of every corner. If the rider has to brake entering each corner (no coasting to slow down), then the KE that is added in each jump is wasted as heat in braking. For a flat crit at 40 km/h, 1 km circuit, 4 corners per lap, 10 km/h speed loss at each corner, one hour duration, 80 kg rider/6.5 kg bike/1.75 kg rims/tires/spokes, there would be 160 corner jumps. This effort adds 387 kilocalories to the 1100 kilocalories required for the same ride at steady speed. Removing 500 g from the wheels, reduces the total body energy requirement by 4.4 kilocalories. If the extra 500 g in the wheels had resulted in a 0.3% reduction in aerodynamic drag factor (worth a0.02 mph (0.03 km/h) speed increase at 25 mph), the caloric cost of the added weight effect would be canceled by the reduced work to overcome the wind.

Another place where light wheels are claimed to have great advantage is in climbing. Though one may hear expressions such as "these wheels were worth 1–2 mph", etc. The formula for power suggests that 1 lb saved is worth 0.06 mph (0.1 km/h) on a 7% grade, and even a 4 lb saving is worth only 0.25 mph (0.4 km/h) for a light rider. So, where is the big savings in wheel weight reduction coming from? One argument is that there is no such improvement; that it is "placebo effect". But it has been proposed that the speed variation with each pedal stroke when riding up a hill explains such an advantage. However the energy of speed variation is conserved; during the power phase of pedaling the bike speeds up slightly, which stores KE, and in the "dead spot" at the top of the pedal stroke the bike slows down, which recovers that KE. Thus increased rotating mass may slightly reduce speed variations, but it does not add energy requirement beyond that of the same non-rotating mass.

Lighter bikes are easier to get up hills, but the cost of "rotating mass" is only an issue during a rapid acceleration, and it is small even then.

***

And this which is from the cycling analytics site linked in the above article:

http://www.analyticcycling.com/WheelsClimb_Page.html

***

This is interesting too:

http://biketechreview.com/reviews/wheels/63-wheel-performance
 
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