Motorsports Thread

[derrick]

On another vein the BTCC was good yesterday, but confusing about the number of boosts available on the screen & not sure spectators will be able to understand it at trackside but good close racing.

The Carrera cup was brilliant.

 

[Illaveago]

From what I could see from the racing yesterday is that all of these new changes seem to have got them back in the same situation that they were in before . Cars not being able to overtake ! Le Clerc was stuck behind Perez for ages . Lewis was stuck in a long chain of cars and couldn't overtake . The only difference I could see is that the car's can get closer . The other thing about the new cars is that if you go over the kerbs and lose down force you are heading for a crash .
I also don't agree with time penalties being added on at the end . Ocon should have served his time in the pits ! A driver who offends can benefit from staying out , they can impede a driver from advancing by being in front of them whereas if they were forced into the pits they would be removed from that situation.

 

[Reynard]

The basic science behind the aero is actually very simple, and uses Bernoulli's Principle. By accelerating the air under the car through the use of a venturi (a constricted section), you are lowering the air pressure underneath, sucking the car to the tarmac. It's quite elegant, really.

The problem is that with a racing car, the velocity of the airflow through that venturi isn't a constant. It's a variable, which means the level of downforce generated is also a variable. And because the pressure drop is dependent on the square of the velocity, it's a bit of a nightmare.

 

[icowden]

From what I could see from the racing yesterday is that all of these new changes seem to have got them back in the same situation that they were in before . Cars not being able to overtake ! Le Clerc was stuck behind Perez for ages . Lewis was stuck in a long chain of cars and couldn't overtake . The only difference I could see is that the car's can get closer . The other thing about the new cars is that if you go over the kerbs and lose down force you are heading for a crash .
I also don't agree with time penalties being added on at the end . Ocon should have served his time in the pits ! A driver who offends can benefit from staying out , they can impede a driver from advancing by being in front of them whereas if they were forced into the pits they would be removed from that situation.

Agree wholeheartedly. Russell had some good luck on the starts, whilst Hamilton got boxed in both times - that was the key difference in their placings, plus Hamilton nearly collecting Ocon to cement it.

I did wonder if the issue is with the circuit. It felt as though the race could have been exciting if that back strait was just a little bit longer. Hamilton kept not having quite enough time to execute the pass on Gasly, and as long as Gasly could hold onto DRS as well, there just wasn't enough differential - somehow Gasly couldn't get past Zhoe. If Hamilton had had a bit more power he'd have been past them both.

That really long DRS period also killed the race completely - 10 laps earlier might have made a big difference.

 

[classic33]

From what I could see from the racing yesterday is that all of these new changes seem to have got them back in the same situation that they were in before . Cars not being able to overtake ! Le Clerc was stuck behind Perez for ages . Lewis was stuck in a long chain of cars and couldn't overtake . The only difference I could see is that the car's can get closer . The other thing about the new cars is that if you go over the kerbs and lose down force you are heading for a crash .
I also don't agree with time penalties being added on at the end . Ocon should have served his time in the pits ! A driver who offends can benefit from staying out , they can impede a driver from advancing by being in front of them whereas if they were forced into the pits they would be removed from that situation.

If he had to stop again the penalty would have been served in the pits. The five second time penalty wouldn't have been over half a minute if served in the pits. Its why they have a Drive Through penalty. The same rules for all the drivers.

Hamilton was on the radio complaining about no DRS, not enough power, the car in front of him not letting him by*. Maybe he can't pass those further down the field, without the aid of blue flags.


*Gasly, who he was racing against at the time, just happened to be the better driver, of the two of them, on the day. He was also rightfully defending his position, against a driver and car combination that wasn't up to the task.

 

[icowden]

Hamilton was on the radio complaining about no DRS, not enough power, the car in front of him not letting him by*. Maybe he can't pass those further down the field, without the aid of blue flags.

To be fair - when he was complaining about no DRS he was in a position where he could have taken Gasly with the additional power - Gasly hadn't got on the back of Zhoe. Of course he is frustrated by the lack of power in the car, and his knowledge that he has a faster car than the one in front. And of course Gasly didn't have to let him past.

Hamilton has more than demonstrated that he can pass through the field, but you have to have enough differential in the car to get the overtake done and without DRS and a long enough strait for the power differentials to be meaningful, even a 7 time world champion is going to struggle. He had some overtakes early on but then got stuck in the DRS chain of doom after losing about 4 seconds due to Ocon's unsafe release.

That said Hamilton does seem to be in the doldrums and Russell does seem to get on with the car a bit better than Lewis does.

 

[classic33]

To be fair - when he was complaining about no DRS he was in a position where he could have taken Gasly with the additional power - Gasly hadn't got on the back of Zhoe. Of course he is frustrated by the lack of power in the car, and his knowledge that he has a faster car than the one in front. And of course Gasly didn't have to let him past.

Hamilton has more than demonstrated that he can pass through the field, but you have to have enough differential in the car to get the overtake done and without DRS and a long enough strait for the power differentials to be meaningful, even a 7 time world champion is going to struggle. He had some overtakes early on but then got stuck in the DRS chain of doom after losing about 4 seconds due to Ocon's unsafe release.

That said Hamilton does seem to be in the doldrums and Russell does seem to get on with the car a bit better than Lewis does.

Hamilton was complaining about the lack of power, and no DRS before the pit lane incident, five second penalty given to Ocon. He "lost" more time than would be normal due to half the grid coming in on the same lap. The same as everyone who came in at that time.

If the car was faster than the one in front, as you say, he should have been able to draw level with the slower car in front. He couldn't, he tried and failed more than once. Even when there was no DRS, he was stuck behind him, unable to pass.

Gasly was following Albon, whilst defending his position on track.

 

[Illaveago]

I don't know how Lewis and Russell cope with the car . At one point it looked like Lewis had a Bucking Bronco as he approached one corner.
It looks like most of the car's do it to some extent and I wonder how the FIA came up with the idea !

 

[matticus]

The entire first page of google shows that overtake is a verb.

<sigh> as you were ...

 

[Bonefish Blues]

The entire first page of google shows that overtake is a verb.

<sigh> as you were ...

And there we have the evolution of language.

 

[icowden]

Hamilton was complaining about the lack of power, and no DRS before the pit lane incident, five second penalty given to Ocon. He "lost" more time than would be normal due to half the grid coming in on the same lap. The same as everyone who came in at that time.

He lost places due to being delayed by Ocon being released in front of him - because that cost time. Only a few seconds but it did cost him. Instead of coming back out in (11th?12th?) he came back out in 14th.

If the car was faster than the one in front, as you say, he should have been able to draw level with the slower car in front. He couldn't, he tried and failed more than once. Even when there was no DRS, he was stuck behind him, unable to pass.

He drew alongside almost every time, but not enough to get the full half cars width to give him some elbow., it was clear his car was faster than Gasly's but not by enough to get past on that long straight without a DRS advantage. Gasly drove very well and didn't succumb to the pressure that Hamilton was piling on, I don't disagree with that.

 

[matticus]

And there we have the evolution of language.

Doesn't mean I have to like it! And in this case it's produced an ugly useage. (evolution? more like devolution, haha!). When "pass" existed as a simple, easily understood, long established noun.

"He's executed an overtake." whaaaaaaaaat!

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I do wonder if he had dropped back 1/2 a second so that he didn't get DRS to allow Gasly to attack Albon would Albon have been able to pull away so that Albon didn't get DRS & then Hamilton could have overtaken him. But he would have had exactly the same issue if both of them caught up the next car.

Ocon/Alpine really screwed Hamilton's race with that unsafe release, I don't think 5 seconds after the race was enough of a penalty. Maybe the rules need to be to give the place back even if that means giving up 2,3,x places. It's happened before where a car has got between 2 cars that should swap places, so they effectively can't swap without losing multiple places, but tough.

But as I'm typing that I'm wondering if it could then be used to a tactical advantage, somebody has to give a place back, but the car they have to give the place back to goes into the pits & comes out 8 cars behind, what would they have to do then, give up 8 places?

 

[classic33]

How much time did he lose entering the pits, given half of those on track pitted on the same lap. And what did the 4+ second pit stop actually cost him.

Icon was impeded by the Alpha Tauri pit activity.

 

[icowden]

How much time did he lose entering the pits, given half of those on track pitted on the same lap. And what did the 4+ second pit stop actually cost him.

Icon was impeded by the Alpha Tauri pit activity.

It cost him three places if I recall correctly and got him stuck for the rest of the race. Hamilton got boxed at the start, whilst George had a lucky break and skipped from 11th to 6th and was then able to push up to 4th. Hamilton on the other hand fought up to 11th then got Oconned back down to 14th and stuck in the perpetual DRS train of doom. The Mercedes has the power to take the other cars one at a time but not in a DRS train.

The issues are compounded by the fact that Imola isn't a great F1 track any more and has hosted quite a few processions.