More than 32,000 people have died on British roads in the past 10 years
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summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
Sorry I should of said ... I don't travel at rush hour... I drop my youngest at school and then set off and similarly pick him up from school so my commuting is done at 8.45 and 2.45 ish so hardy prime rush hour (though school run time). I often pass cars that I don't see until a mile or two along the road - as I said my average speed is 10 mph (look on cyclogs if you don't believe me) so those cars are literally crawling along. Traffic in cities doesn't move fast most of the time.
With regards to Hannah Saff. On that stretch of road I doubt cars do 30 mph ... its downhill so I can go faster and I keep up with the traffic (I'm usually in primary due to what the road is like just beyond that point) so I think 20 mph is the normal max on that road where Sam was killed.
As for letting my kids play on the road - I live by some quiet roads so yes I have let mine play on the roads but only with specific rules and not until I was sure that they understood the dangers. Many kids grow up not being allowed to walk to school, play near roads, go out by themselves - all too dangerous apparently - they are the clueless kids who have grown up without experiencing the road and learning from it. Parents can't supervise their children all the time unless they become those helicopter parents at some point they have to let go - at that point do you want to be the parent of a child who has been wrapped up in cotton wool. Home zones change the balance so that it becomes more normal to go out and play with your friends, explore your neighbourhood etc.
I don't know why I'm replying to this as I doubt you are prepared to alter your view on this at all.
With regards to Hannah Saff. On that stretch of road I doubt cars do 30 mph ... its downhill so I can go faster and I keep up with the traffic (I'm usually in primary due to what the road is like just beyond that point) so I think 20 mph is the normal max on that road where Sam was killed.
As for letting my kids play on the road - I live by some quiet roads so yes I have let mine play on the roads but only with specific rules and not until I was sure that they understood the dangers. Many kids grow up not being allowed to walk to school, play near roads, go out by themselves - all too dangerous apparently - they are the clueless kids who have grown up without experiencing the road and learning from it. Parents can't supervise their children all the time unless they become those helicopter parents at some point they have to let go - at that point do you want to be the parent of a child who has been wrapped up in cotton wool. Home zones change the balance so that it becomes more normal to go out and play with your friends, explore your neighbourhood etc.
I don't know why I'm replying to this as I doubt you are prepared to alter your view on this at all.
User3094 said:
A duty of care is to drive at a speed which you are able to stop within the distance you see to be safe. Are you asserting that this is only achievable at 20mph ?
Oh, don't try and attribute anything I say to the ABD, or safespeed or vice-versa. I am not a member of either.
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
very-near said:
No it wouldn't but because she was ignoring the speed limit anyway.... if you want to take it too its full limit ... then taking away her keys and everyone elses would have saved his life - is that what you are suggesting instead? But there are other children whose lives would be saved by a 20 mph limit.
summerdays said:
You are reply to this because it is something you feel strongly about SD (and so do I)
Your rules seem to be very similar to mine in regard to playing on or near the road so what are you asking for ?
You wouldn't allow your kids to kick a ball on a trunk road even if the traffic was limited to 20mph bu you would allow then onto an empty cul-de-sac provided they got off the road if a car turned in (even if it was set at 30mph) - and so would I.
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
They are currently playing ice hockey on the road.... as you say its a quiet road and nothing is doing 30 mph today. I would still expect the car to slow down on seeing children in the road and allow then the time to get off and not beep them for being there.
summerdays said:
The assumption seems to be that roads are for cars; they are, but they're not solely for cars. If a speed limit is such that other valid users of that road are excluded then it would be appropriate to lower it or install other measures to give other users fair and reasonable access. That changes on dual carriageways, fast out of town roads etc., but not to the point where other valid users are excluded.
The kids out playing ice hockey (or football in better weather, or whatever else!) are valid users of that space. For motorists to treat roads as their own private domain and deprive other users is unacceptable; for so many people to cave in to that demand is a sign that as a society we're seriously missing the point of what public spaces are for.
A 20mph limit helps reinforce the attitude that public spaces are for more than just the motorists. My only criticism of more widespread 20mph zones is that we may end up forgetting that lesson if such a speed limit becomes standard.
Article in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2009/dec/21/cyclists-pedestrians-restricting
Turns out that unsupportable notions about 20mph limits being a bad thing are quite common.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2009/dec/21/cyclists-pedestrians-restricting
Turns out that unsupportable notions about 20mph limits being a bad thing are quite common.
