More than 32,000 people have died on British roads in the past 10 years

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summerdays said:
They are currently playing ice hockey on the road.... as you say its a quiet road and nothing is doing 30 mph today. I would still expect the car to slow down on seeing children in the road and allow then the time to get off and not beep them for being there.

I'd be bloody furious if I or my kids were beeped by an impatient knob who didn't give me time to clear the way, but I wouldn't be so arrogant that I would deliberately hold them up as the roads are thoroughfare's and you are not allowed to deliberately obstruct free passage on them.
 
Origamist said:
I'd be keen to see some residential roads limited to walking pace.


There are instances where this is an entirely appropriate speed for them.
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
very-near said:
I'd be bloody furious if I or my kids were beeped by an impatient knob who didn't give me time to clear the way, but I wouldn't be so arrogant that I would deliberately hold them up as the roads are thoroughfare's and you are not allowed to deliberately obstruct free passage on them.

So if the roads are valid space for people other than motorists to use, and 20mph limits are proven to reduce risk for those other users, remind me, what was the basis for rejecting their more widespread use?
 
User3094 said:
Please respond.

Because it overides the basic premise.
126

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.




I personally think it is important that drivers think for themselves and be alert at all times irrespective of whatever speed they travel at and observe the Highway code guidelines above. I see these 20s as an attempt to dumb down on this requirement and will be counter productive if not used selectively.
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
very-near said:
I personally think it is important that drivers think for themselves and be alert at all times irrespective of whatever speed they travel at and observe the Highway code guidelines above. I see these 20s as an attempt to dumb down on this requirement and will be counter productive if not used selectively.

Selectively such as?
 
Cab said:
So if the roads are valid space for people other than motorists to use, and 20mph limits are proven to reduce risk for those other users, remind me, what was the basis for rejecting their more widespread use?

Are you saying that it would be a sensible thing to have a football game on the Cambridge ring road as this is a valid space for all road users ?
 

StuartG

slower but no further
Location
SE London
Returning to the Sam Riddall/Bristol case. A 20mph zone MAY have saved his life. The point that the driver was ignoring the speed limit is not that relevant. 20mph zones as they are enforced in London do not rely on driver's compliance with a speed limit sign. They rely on passive calming methods - humps mostly. The study shows they work. Average speed is reduce 9mph to 17mph.

I presume 'twice the speed limit' means 60mph in a 30mph area. I doubt whether the lady however mad would have attempted anything like that in such a zone. So we go from certain death @60mph to at least a chance if those calming measures kept to around 30 or less.

It would be nice if people voluntarily agreed to honour speed limit signs. It is sad for those that do that they have to suffer the discomfort, wear & tear on vehicles and ironically unneccessary deaths because emergency vehicles cannot get to a life saving situation (like a car crash) fast enough. But the study gives very strong evidence that it saves even more lives.

I don't see what arguements there can be against the expansion of 20mph zoning. It will be limited by the cost of calming and we probably need more studies to highlight which areas would benefit most and which calming methods work best. Lets try and push for commitment to get those measures written into the election manifestos of the two major parties.

Maybe just for the pleasure as they squirm knowing that it is electorally difficult to alienate motorists. But the evidence is clear ... and all this global warming stuff is predicated on statistics that politicians say is convincing when this is even more convincing!
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
very-near said:
Roads which link pedestrianised areas together, schools, areas of high footfall on ring roads.

So, thats pretty much all urban roads (other than major trunk roads and dual carriageways) and a large number of rural/village roads?
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
very-near said:
Are you saying that it would be a sensible thing to have a football game on the Cambridge ring road as this is a valid space for all road users ?

On a major trunk road? No. On the myriad of other roads around towns, cities and vllages? While it isn't sensible with the current mindset of British motorists, the rational position is that making such use a reality should be the goal.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Actually a once a year football match or other thing isn't so bad .. .the Portway gets closed for both the half marathon and the biggest Bike Ride event every year showing it is possible.
 
StuartG said:
Returning to the Sam Riddall/Bristol case. A 20mph zone MAY have saved his life. The point that the driver was ignoring the speed limit is not that relevant. 20mph zones as they are enforced in London do not rely on driver's compliance with a speed limit sign. They rely on passive calming methods - humps mostly. The study shows they work. Average speed is reduce 9mph to 17mph.

I presume 'twice the speed limit' means 60mph in a 30mph area. I doubt whether the lady however mad would have attempted anything like that in such a zone. So we go from certain death @60mph to at least a chance if those calming measures kept to around 30 or less.

We have humps in my town as well. They are spaced so the largest vehicles (buses) can pass over them without having to lift off the gas at all (good idea that :ohmy: ) I regularly see cars travelling at 50+mph in 30 zones - usually driven by kids (or nicked)

It would be nice if people voluntarily agreed to honour speed limit signs. It is sad for those that do that they have to suffer the discomfort, wear & tear on vehicles and ironically unneccessary deaths because emergency vehicles cannot get to a life saving situation (like a car crash) fast enough. But the study gives very strong evidence that it saves even more lives.

You said it, if they are going ignore a 30, then there is every likelihood they are going to ignore a 20. If peds are off their guard in a 20, then this puts them at even great danger from those who will chose to ignore them. It cuts both ways.

I don't see what arguements there can be against the expansion of 20mph zoning. It will be limited by the cost of calming and we probably need more studies to highlight which areas would benefit most and which calming methods work best. Lets try and push for commitment to get those measures written into the election manifestos of the two major parties.

Speed cushions are a danger to motorcyclists. You won't feel them on 23mm wide cycle tyres, but I can assure you that on a 120mm wide front tyre on a motorcyle, they do present a substantial risk from deflection if you hit them at anything other than directly square, which is very undesirable. I would fight against such blanket measures and think your stance is a fairly self serving one.

Maybe just for the pleasure as they squirm knowing that it is electorally difficult to alienate motorists. But the evidence is clear ... and all this global warming stuff is predicated on statistics that politicians say is convincing when this is even more convincing!

30 million cars on the roads being shafted for high vehicle duty and VED to pay for the fcuk up the government has made of the economy - I'd like to see any of them go for it and see the backlash. Car drivers are the electorate as the vast majority are of voting age. Political parties would ignore this fact at their peril.
 
User3094 said:
Please respond.


The biggest problem with this thread is that you are so interested in what you are typing, you don't really see the rest.

I've already stated I don't have a problem with 20 zones if used where the risk warrants it (schools, high footfal zones etc). Read the thread and stop being so obtuse with this cut and paste posting style smeggers!
 
StuartG said:
Stop it! I don't think I could take the shock of an honest, straightforward, relevant answer from our friend. I know taunting can be fun ...

I sincerely suspect that your interest is more of a self serving one to keep the cars behind you on your cycle commute by forcing their speed down and making it almost impossible for them to overtake you Stuart. Feel free to prove me wrong, but the reality is that ALL car drivers and cyclists are pedestrians as well so out of, or off the mode, all face the same problems with cars. but you seem to conveniently ignore this as well. I'd go so far as to say most of this thread has been driven by this unspoken agenda.
 
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