LTNs on TV

[fossyant]

Yup - that is the problem though
Firstly - I worked in a Primary school - mostly as a IT Technician so I had nowhere to store wet clothes or easily get changed (I lived in a cupboard full of electronic stuff!!!!!)
Secondly - and relevant beyond this thread as well - putting a laptop in a pannier may not be a good idea as it will be subject to any shock coming through the frame
I would advise carrying a laptop in a backpack or laptop bag worn on your person - this way it has the suspension of your body and knees.
Same applies to decent cameras - I realised this when I went for a ride a few years ago and my pannier had an apple and a camera in them.
By the end of the ride the apple was bruised all over - luckily the camera seems to be OK but I realised that carrying complex electronics like laptops and camera directly attached to a solid frame might not be a great idea!!!

You are putting barriers in the way. Laptops use SSD's and I've been doing an off road commute now for 18 months, across cobbles, roots etc. No damage to laptop in panniers in a shockproof wallet (£20). Even fell off a couple of times.

Drying, then you just need a few hangers and a corner of the room. Get changed in the loo. This is what I've been doing for many years. No showers, no place to really dry kit, no changing other that the loo. Disabled loo fine if you are in early. Drying clothes can be done quite well with a desk fan.

 

[BrumJim]

As with a lot of things - especially local based things - planning is not always the strong suit of the people in charge!!
(just look at some of the cycle lanes introduced over lockdown for example!)

I get annoyed by this short-term view on planning. Yes, temporarily more cars funneled down fewer open roads will result in more traffic. The aim is to persuade many of those cars stuck in traffic to walk or cycle instead.

In the longer term, increased car ownership and usage will result in more traffic on the main road as well as the cut-throughs, to the point where these are just as busy and slow as they would have been with the LTN in place. To the point where people decide to walk or cycle instead. Only they can't cycle as all the roads are full, and perish the thought that cycle lanes can be put in, as that will only make the traffic worse.

So short term planning looks chaotic and incompetent. But is it really the council that don't know what they are doing? Or is it the motorists begging for unfettered access?

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

But are LTNs at all coordinated with public transport or are they standalone anti-rat-running measures?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "coordinated with public transport", but there are plenty of buses from the areas with LTNs, certainly - about 15 per hour from central Cowley into Oxford, plus three or four per hour from Cowley to the JR Hospital.

Effectively the LTNs do two things. They make the back streets safer for cycling and walking. They also act as a "stick" for the sort of driver for whom no carrot can be gold-plated enough.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "coordinated with public transport", but there are plenty of buses from the areas with LTNs, certainly - about 15 per hour from central Cowley into Oxford, plus three or four per hour from Cowley to the JR Hospital.

Effectively the LTNs do two things. They make the back streets safer for cycling and walking. They also act as a "stick" for the sort of driver for whom no carrot can be gold-plated enough.

That is how they should work
Unfortunately the 'papers' will concentrate on the nurse who now has to drive an extra 2 miles is crawling traffic to get to work because she can't turn left out of her own drive and has to turn right and join the main road a mile further out from work
and ignore the 200 people who would have cut through past the nurses house thus adding to the polution her kids are playing in - or forcing them to stay indoor playing on Xboxes rather than playing in the street due to traffic passing at speed

and the idea of it being co-ordinated with public transport requires money - first of all because some areas have seen such a reduction in bus services over the years that there is very little the local can use

all of which comes back to the planning and thought that goes into it
hence - some will work fine (except for a few people who will moan anyway) and some will be a right pain and accomplish nothing

 

[I like Skol]

You are putting barriers in the way. Laptops use SSD's and I've been doing an off road commute now for 18 months, across cobbles, roots etc. No damage to laptop in panniers in a shockproof wallet (£20). Even fell off a couple of times.

Drying, then you just need a few hangers and a corner of the room. Get changed in the loo. This is what I've been doing for many years. No showers, no place to really dry kit, no changing other that the loo. Disabled loo fine if you are in early. Drying clothes can be done quite well with a desk fan.

Some people just prefer to drive and will always find barriers to make the car free option 'unviable'! I actually prefer a wet cycle commute to the driving alternative. Much more engaging and stimulating, plus more control over congestion issues. Gridlock in a car stops you dead, while on a bicycle it just slows you down a bit.

 

[fossyant]

Some people just prefer to drive and will always find barriers to make the car free option 'unviable'! I actually prefer a wet cycle commute to the driving alternative. Much more engaging and stimulating, plus more control over congestion issues. Gridlock in a car stops you dead, while on a bicycle it just slows you down a bit.

Same here. Drive can take an hour and is unpredictable, and costs £8 a day including parking. Cycling takes 40 to 50 minutes depending on time of year and weather. Traffic no issue.

 

[Dadam]

Some people just prefer to drive and will always find barriers to make the car free option 'unviable'! I actually prefer a wet cycle commute to the driving alternative. Much more engaging and stimulating, plus more control over congestion issues. Gridlock in a car stops you dead, while on a bicycle it just slows you down a bit.

Last straw for me was my 5 mile commute taking >1.5 hours one day. 3 mile to the park and ride, 2 mile on the bus, normally about 30 mins but one day it was total gridlock. I literally could have walked the whole way faster, so I kept thinking I should just get off the bus and walk the rest, but there's always that thought that 2 mins after you do, it will all clear up. I saw cyclists whizzing past the stationary bus and thought, that's great why don't I do that. So I did. On the bike it's <20 mins and if it's total gridlock it adds 3-5 min max.

The 3 mile to the P&R wasn't ideal for the environment or my (3.0L diesel) engine either.

 

[toffee]

Or is it the motorists begging for unfettered access?

On another forum, motoring based, yes this is what the diehards want. Anything else is a restriction on their liberty.

 

[Dogtrousers]

all of which comes back to the planning and thought that goes into it
hence - some will work fine (except for a few people who will moan anyway) and some will be a right pain and accomplish nothing

On that basis I'm not terribly optimistic. Putting thought into stuff rather than just ticking boxes isn't a British forte.

The good ones will improve residential areas by cutting down on rat-running, but the associated risks - of dumping the excess traffic elsewhere and increasing local journey times and pollution would have to be carefully considered, monitored post-implementation and adjustments made where necessary.

As to whether they can affect individual behaviour and churn out lots lof smiling bike commuters. I'm more than a little sceptical.

 

[presta]

The aim is to persuade many of those cars stuck in traffic to walk or cycle instead.

When I ask the anti-LTN lot on Twitter what their alternative policy for that is, they never have an answer, When I suggest doubling motor taxes they go all quiet.

Gridlock in a car stops you dead

From the age of 10-11 I counted the days until I could have a driving licence, so when I passed my test I gleefully jumped in the car, joined the traffic jams, and loved every minute of it. I just wasn't fazed by them, and being quicker than the train was an advantage.

 

[BrumJim]

On that basis I'm not terribly optimistic. Putting thought into stuff rather than just ticking boxes isn't a British forte.

The good ones will improve residential areas by cutting down on rat-running, but the associated risks - of dumping the excess traffic elsewhere and increasing local journey times and pollution would have to be carefully considered, monitored post-implementation and adjustments made where necessary.

As to whether they can affect individual behaviour and churn out lots lof smiling bike commuters. I'm more than a little sceptical.

We have a transport planning department in our company, and just had a fascinating "Lunch and Learn" session titled "Transportation Technical Webinar - Targets to increase cycling – why are they always missed?"

Inner London - massive improvements. Also Brighton (and Hove), Bristol are top of the tree. General overall picture? Bad, and made worse by cuts in Government expenditure on active travel.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Transport planners tend to miss out motorbikes in their considerations, which would make quite a dint in congestion if they included supportive measures for them. They also don't tend to fully consider HGV's and the need for deliveries, but the biggest failing in my experience is the overall lack of a cohesive strategy for the area and road users that links the various modes of transport or even sections of the highway, and that's at both local and national levels.

It's often stated that the roads weren't really made for cars, but we've got what we've got, so that's a lame excuse to hide behind. You can only play with the cards you've got, so accepting the problem has to be the first step towards looking for an effective solution.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

yes some days it was wet, but surprisingly few, and I used to have dry clothes and shoes in office, so even in the days before office showers I could freshen up on arrival. It wasn't like it was a long enough hop to get sweaty. I then fell out of love with the tube, work moved to a place with showers, so got a Brommie and showered on arrival at work.

When I started cycle commuting, I kept a spreadsheet for a year. My first commute route took an hour each way, twice a day five days a week year round. I got rained on exactly 6 times out of about 440 commutes. Even then that was no big deal, leaving my suit and clean shirts, shoes, tie etc at work.

 

[Jameshow]

Yep - I haul mine in a pannier along the Ridgeway and back (not all of it, but some of it) on a rigid MTB. Quite honestly I wish it would die!

Silly boy brought a celron!!

 

[presta]

The review was published this morning.