LTNs on TV

[the snail]

Genuine question: Do LTNs go further than sticking planters at the junctions to prevent rat-running?

If they don't include a review of public transport then they are pretty pointless. ...

LTNs don't actually prevent you driving anywhere, just means a longer route. The buses usually run on the routes outside the LTN. The point of them is to create quieter less polluted neighbourhoods that are better for cycling and walking.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I started cycling to work a few years ago, in summer, wearing more or less my work clothes (thankfully pretty casual at my workplace so no suits). But before long being Northern England there were some wet days, so initially I packed a change of clothes in a plastic bag inside my cheapy shopping pannier, then after a bit I bought a waterproof pannier with laptop storage. All you need is somewhere to store the wet things and ideally somewhere to hang them to dry until the trip home. It's not fun putting on wet things at the end of your working day, but it's not the end of the world.

Yup - that is the problem though
Firstly - I worked in a Primary school - mostly as a IT Technician so I had nowhere to store wet clothes or easily get changed (I lived in a cupboard full of electronic stuff!!!!!)
Secondly - and relevant beyond this thread as well - putting a laptop in a pannier may not be a good idea as it will be subject to any shock coming through the frame
I would advise carrying a laptop in a backpack or laptop bag worn on your person - this way it has the suspension of your body and knees.
Same applies to decent cameras - I realised this when I went for a ride a few years ago and my pannier had an apple and a camera in them.
By the end of the ride the apple was bruised all over - luckily the camera seems to be OK but I realised that carrying complex electronics like laptops and camera directly attached to a solid frame might not be a great idea!!!

 

[Dogtrousers]

I'm still puzzled.

Is an LTN purely a way of re-routing traffic to provide lower traffic levels in residential neighbourhoods?

If so that kind of thing has been happening for years in suburban London. I can point to oodles of bollards, of barriers that only the emergency services can open, of width restrictors and so on. One-way streets, speed-bumps, maybe also 20mph limits too. These are all common anti-rat-running strategies. I'm all for them. Residential parking restrictions play a role too. The aim is to keep the medium distance traffic on the arterials, and allow (or encourage) only local traffic on the residential streets.

Or are they something more?

There's a lot of talk in this thread about encouraging people to make shorter journeys on foot/bike/bus. Is that actually part of the LTN remit?

If it is, then it will fail because a few bollards and a slightly more convoluted route to work isn't going to change anyone's mind.

 

[Dadam]

Secondly - and relevant beyond this thread as well - putting a laptop in a pannier may not be a good idea as it will be subject to any shock coming through the frame
I would advise carrying a laptop in a backpack or laptop bag worn on your person - this way it has the suspension of your body and knees.
Same applies to decent cameras - I realised this when I went for a ride a few years ago and my pannier had an apple and a camera in them.
By the end of the ride the apple was bruised all over - luckily the camera seems to be OK but I realised that carrying complex electronics like laptops and camera directly attached to a solid frame might not be a great idea!!!

Non-issue. The laptop isn’t bolted to the frame, it’s in a pannier bag that’s clipped to the frame so pretty well isolated from vibration. It’s also in separate padded sleeve compartment so protected from other contents that might knock against it. You get more issues carrying a laptop in a case in public transport. Dropping the case down a bit hard on the bus floor, knocking it against seats as you get on/off etc

 

[presta]

that kind of thing has been happening for years in suburban London

I'm fond of pointing out to the anti-LTN brigade on Twitter that a road blocked with bollards is just a cul de sac, and there are thousands of roads that were built that way in the first place. Virtually all new residential streets are cul de sacs these days.

I think they need to stop using bendy plastic bollards and use these instead:

 

[Ming the Merciless]

do I really want to cycle to work

You are using a 2 tonne car as a rain coat 🧥

 

[Ming the Merciless]

putting a laptop in a pannier may not be a good idea as it will be subject to any shock coming through the frame

Had a laptop in a pannier, travelling twice a day, 5 days a week, year round, well over a decade. That was with an old school HDD, newer SSD models will be even more tolerant. Put it in a padded bad designed for the purpose. It’s a non issue.

 

[figbat]

Had a laptop in a pannier, travelling twice a day, 5 days a week, year round, well over a decade. That was with an old school HDD, newer SSD models will be even more tolerant. Put it in a padded bad designed for the purpose. It’s a non issue.

Yep - I haul mine in a pannier along the Ridgeway and back (not all of it, but some of it) on a rigid MTB. Quite honestly I wish it would die!

 

[Dogtrousers]

I tried commuting by bike for a while. I didn't like it. I reverted to using the train. I am a bad person.

 

[DCLane]

The LTN opposers mostly appear to be frustrated rat-runners.

The programme did seem to being out the dafties, but maybe that's the purpose?

 

[I like Skol]

The LTN opposers mostly appear to be frustrated rat-runners.

The programme did seem to being out the dafties, but maybe that's the purpose?

I don't watch these type of programs. Typical Jeremy Vine style clickbait antagonism between the 'opponents'!

If they made a balanced program where both sides saw reason and conceded that they could see the opposite point of view and both parties agreed to make compromises so everybody was happy, they wouldn't have a program..... Which is why they are 'sexed up' in the way of Iraq WMD dossiers to make things more persuasive.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

The LTN opposers mostly appear to be frustrated rat-runners.

The programme did seem to being out the dafties, but maybe that's the purpose?

That is what they should be used to prevent
I think I said above (meant to anyway!) they can be good if planned properly
I have seen articles where a rat run was blocked with planters forcing some local people to drive directly to the main road rather than through the whole estate - an extra 1/2 mile or so that the papers focus on
except that traffic flow through the road reduced far far mores as a lot of cars were forced to stay on the main road rather than cut through


As witha lot of things - especially local based things - planning is not always the strong suit of the people in charge!!
(just look at some of the cycle lanes introduced over lockdown for example!)

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

Genuine question: Do LTNs go further than sticking planters at the junctions to prevent rat-running?

If they don't include a review of public transport then they are pretty pointless. Well, not pointless - I live on a rat-run and I'd be mildly pleased if steps were taken to minimise through traffic. Nice but not transformational. The reason I don't use my car is because I live in the public transport wonderland of SE London. I have bus and train options coming out of my ears.

Certainly Oxford has oodles of bus services and is investing about £80m in new electric buses. The problem is that the buses get stuck in the congestion, which is why the next stage of the Oxford traffic works is to restrict driving across the city.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Certainly Oxford has oodles of bus services and is investing about £80m in new electric buses. The problem is that the buses get stuck in the congestion, which is why the next stage of the Oxford traffic works is to restrict driving across the city.

But are LTNs at all coordinated with public transport or are they standalone anti-rat-running measures?

 

[T4tomo]

Certainly Oxford has oodles of bus services and is investing about £80m in new electric buses. The problem is that the buses get stuck in the congestion, which is why the next stage of the Oxford traffic works is to restrict driving across the city.

Indeed, last time I visited I used the Headington park and ride bus, which then sat for ages in St Clements as traffic queued up at Magdalen Bridge roundabout. How much of that traffic could have gone around the ring road or the Marston ferry road etc - quite a lot I suspect.

But to drive that change in behaviour for people to go "round and then in" you have to make it damn inconvenient

To make people walk into instead of jumping into the urban 4x4 you have to make it damn inconvenient

it does appear to be slowly working though, when a LTN restriction is put in, apparently the increase in traffic on surrounding trunk route is much less than the decrease in traffic in the rat run.

When I commuted into London I used to drive to my local station, then parking charges increased so i parked 5-10 mins walk away and thn that got residnets restrictions so i did what I should have done and cycled home to station.

yes some days it was wet, but surprisingly few, and I used to have dry clothes and shoes in office, so even in the days before office showers I could freshen up on arrival. It wasn't like it was a long enough hop to get sweaty. I then fell out of love with the tube, work moved to a place with showers, so got a Brommie and showered on arrival at work.