Lorry and bike 'can share road'
- Thread starter Jake
- Start date
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Us and the Germans helped out a lot of European cities and enabled them to reorganize their infrastructure back in the 40s.
Seriously though, it's stupid to compare somewhere like Amsterdam and so on to London, they are tiny little cities, the isssues which affect each are dramatically different
Seriously though, it's stupid to compare somewhere like Amsterdam and so on to London, they are tiny little cities, the isssues which affect each are dramatically different
DJ
Formerly known as djtheglove
- Location
- On my bike in the smoke!!!!!!!!!!
Whats going on?
I've read in London Cycling Campaign magazine, that they have been successfull in getting a law passed that makes all lorries even ones already on the road to have wing mirrors fitted which cover all the blind spots not currently covered by the exixting wing mirrors!?
Have I just been reading a load of rubbish or don't the police who are running this scheme know that the law has just been passed?
I'm very confused now????????
I've read in London Cycling Campaign magazine, that they have been successfull in getting a law passed that makes all lorries even ones already on the road to have wing mirrors fitted which cover all the blind spots not currently covered by the exixting wing mirrors!?
Have I just been reading a load of rubbish or don't the police who are running this scheme know that the law has just been passed?
I'm very confused now????????
Rhythm Thief
Legendary Member
- Location
- Ross on Wye
djtheglove said:
Law or not, there will always be blind spots on a lorry. I think that's what this campaign is all about.
My new (08 plate) artic has mirrors everywhere. But it also has silly decorative trim on the back of the side mirrors which creates a blind spot easily big enough for a cyclist when I approach a roundabout. And all the mirrors in the world won't allow me to see through the trailer if my unit is parked at an angle to it. Finally, I still have only the one pair of eyes and they can't be everywhere all the time! The more cyclists who are taught to keep clear of the danger zone, the better.
DJ
Formerly known as djtheglove
- Location
- On my bike in the smoke!!!!!!!!!!
Ye I see your point RT, I always stay well clear of lorries, I guess the more cyclists they can educate the better!
It's the casual cyclists that they have to get to really is'nt it! By that I mean the ones who put on a flourescent bib and go out on the road and presume there safe.
Some cyclists I've met havent passed their driving test so can't identify the dangers either.!
It's the casual cyclists that they have to get to really is'nt it! By that I mean the ones who put on a flourescent bib and go out on the road and presume there safe.
Some cyclists I've met havent passed their driving test so can't identify the dangers either.!
A few points to pick up on here:
1. European development of cycle facilities.
The development of cycling infrastructure, although some was post-war as already stated, was mostly from the 70's onwards. Up until that point, these countries were going very much in the same direction as the UK with roads being built with abandon to accommodate massive growth in car ownership. One of the accepted theories is that when the 70's oil crises struck, these countries had to seriously think about future energy security, particularly in terms of oil for transport - the result was a massive investment in public transport and walking/cycling, a policy U-turn that has proved most beneficial in the long-term.
In the meanwhile, the UK was less deeply affected thanks to north sea oil and gas so the 'we're alright jack' attitude prevailed along with the ever continuing lack of long-term planning.
2. Holland's bike lanes.
I can only comment on my time visiting (and cycling in) Amsterdam but the bike lanes are a real mixed bag - whilst those on major busy roads might be advantageous, the rest just complicate the road layout and slow you down. The physical separation with curbs is a nightmare, especially given the inevitable dicey drainage standards in such a flat country - the reason everyone gets the tram or bus if it rains is that many of the bike lanes are rendered useless by huge pools of water that you have to negotiate at a snails pace. Oh, and racers/enthusiasts MUST use the cycle lanes at all times where provided. I also saw a good few examples of motorists' lack of respect on the streets with no segregation, close passes (inches!), cyclists in the gutter etc. but I'll put that down to tourists.
3. Repeating the 'European model' in Britain.
It has taken 30+ years of continued political and public support for the kind of investment in cycling and public transport on the continent. Local government on the continent is very different with different cities and regions having far more power over spending and taxation with just broad policy overview from central government. They do not have elections every single year.
Basically, without substantial (and potentially vote losing) political change, we will always be a country that is reactive to problems rather than pro-active across a whole broad range of areas, especially transport.
1. European development of cycle facilities.
The development of cycling infrastructure, although some was post-war as already stated, was mostly from the 70's onwards. Up until that point, these countries were going very much in the same direction as the UK with roads being built with abandon to accommodate massive growth in car ownership. One of the accepted theories is that when the 70's oil crises struck, these countries had to seriously think about future energy security, particularly in terms of oil for transport - the result was a massive investment in public transport and walking/cycling, a policy U-turn that has proved most beneficial in the long-term.
In the meanwhile, the UK was less deeply affected thanks to north sea oil and gas so the 'we're alright jack' attitude prevailed along with the ever continuing lack of long-term planning.
2. Holland's bike lanes.
I can only comment on my time visiting (and cycling in) Amsterdam but the bike lanes are a real mixed bag - whilst those on major busy roads might be advantageous, the rest just complicate the road layout and slow you down. The physical separation with curbs is a nightmare, especially given the inevitable dicey drainage standards in such a flat country - the reason everyone gets the tram or bus if it rains is that many of the bike lanes are rendered useless by huge pools of water that you have to negotiate at a snails pace. Oh, and racers/enthusiasts MUST use the cycle lanes at all times where provided. I also saw a good few examples of motorists' lack of respect on the streets with no segregation, close passes (inches!), cyclists in the gutter etc. but I'll put that down to tourists.
3. Repeating the 'European model' in Britain.
It has taken 30+ years of continued political and public support for the kind of investment in cycling and public transport on the continent. Local government on the continent is very different with different cities and regions having far more power over spending and taxation with just broad policy overview from central government. They do not have elections every single year.
Basically, without substantial (and potentially vote losing) political change, we will always be a country that is reactive to problems rather than pro-active across a whole broad range of areas, especially transport.
GrahamG said:
Snipped a few bits of your message, Graham, but I would just like to comment on a few bits in your second point from my own experience cycling in Belgium, another country which is often cited as having good facilities for cyclists.
In towns I found the separated cycle lanes generally very dangerous. They would run down the inside of parked vehicles and, as you suggest, almost in the drains. The surface was therefore very poor and you were at risk of getting doored!
My last visit was in April to do the Tour of Flanders Sportive and it was truly an awesome sight seeing all the participants (several thousand of them) all trying to squash onto the narrow cycle tracks along almost empty roads.
I would totally concur with this. It was quite scarey the lack of space you were given by overtaking vehicles on roads without cycle lanes. The only reasonably good thing was that vehicles turning right onto a side road would give way to you on the cycle track, before making their turn.
