Lorry and bike 'can share road'

[dondare]

Cycle lanes are definately not the answer. They make cyclists less noticable, motorists do not slow down or move out to pass a cyclist using a lane when they would if there wasn't one.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/Default.aspx?TabID=4928

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/report/cycle-lanes.pdf

Cycle lanes complicate junctions and lead cyclists directly into the most hazardous positions.
The answer is to limit the size of vehicles using narrow streets and as much as possible keep them away from those routes used by cyclists. Also the cab needs to be designed so that the driver can see where his wheels are going to go which isn't the case now.

 

[dondare]

Lorries and bikes share the road up and down the country.

Up and down the country doesn't seem to be a problem, it's in the towns and cities that cyclists are getting mashed.

 

[Cab]

+1

+2

Spent the weekend in Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire. Every time I go up there I spot more insanely narrow, dangerous cycle lanes on the roads.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I *loathe* cycle lanes

+3

 

[jmaccyd]

Also, the design of railings seems to be getting higher and more substantial leaving the 'worst case' escape route closed (as in the Kingsway example in London recently) So better junction design would help.

 

[tdr1nka]

I *loathe* cycle lanes

+4. I never use them.

 

[Brains]

Cycle Lanes:

I've just come back from a week of cycling in Holland and have seen what cycling/cycle lanes could be here.

For those that know the City imagine a route only open to buses, taxi's and bikes (and people). No pavements, no roads, a semi cobbled surface except for the cycle lane.

The North/South route could be:
Southwark Bridge/ Queen St/King St/ round the Guild Hall, and up Moor lane/Bunhill Row.

The East/West Route could be
Fenchurch/Lombard/Gresham St/Newgate st/Holbourne Viaduct

The crossing places would be biased towards the bus/cycle/taxi route and to ensure the taxis did not speed they would have a no overtaking of cyclists rule and also an average speed camera. In addition they would have very few exits.

I would love to see cycling get to even a 10th of the German/Danish/Dutch levels. The main reason why it never will be with the current situation is the (perceived) danger level.

Put it this way:

Could a 11 year old walk from one end of Oxford St to the other in perfect safety on their own ? Irresponsible at worst, but perfectly safe, there will be kids who do it every day on their way back from school

Could a 11 year old cycle from one end of Oxford St to the other in perfect safety on their own ? Possibly but the parent would in all seriousness probably be arrested for endangerment.

Could the same 11 year old cycle from one end of the Dutch equivalent of Oxford St to the other in perfect safety on their own ? Of course, and probably do on their way home from school every day

Imagine Oxford St with only buses/taxis and bikes with pavements removed so people are all over the place, no overtaking by motor vehicles and you have a proper continuation of my City route.

Will it happen ? Only if Boris has the guts or when EU law starts making us get our act together.

 

[zimzum42]

Are you serious?????? You want to pedestrianize Oxford Street but still allow buses and taxis???? Insane!

 

[spen666]

What concerns me is the City of London has the worst provision for cycling within the M25 and will certainly be up there in the lack of provision stakes countrywide

OK so they do have a number of problems such as a medieval street layout and way to many motor vehicles.

However if the truth be told the City Police would really love to get rid of all the cyclists if they had the option.

Until those in power in the City actually start putting in real cycle lanes, setting up a proper east/west and north/south cycle route and putting in many more secure cycle parking areas and doing something about the den cycle of thieves in Brick Lane (which is just outside their remit) only then will it be deemed as them taking serious consideration. In the meantime they are just ticking boxes.

How about a single entry/exit rule for HGV's to the City.

1

So that HGV's have to enter and exit the City via the same route, so that the City is not used as a transit area.

2

That would reduce the traffic noticeably without adding substantial costs to the haulage industry.

3

Due to the 'Ring of Steel' it would be pretty easy to administer as all vehicles (including cyclists) are photo'd as you enter the City.

1. So vehicles are going to have to drive a lot further around the immediate city area to get to the single entry point?
Imagine the entry point is say near Paddington station and you are a lorry coming from say Whitechapel wanting to go to Liverpool St, you now have to drive around #London to the west side to drive back across the city to get to somewhere that would have been less than 1 mile from your origin. You have now driven 15-20 miles taking say 2+ hours instead of 5-10 mins. Hmmm sensible? Increased pollution, increased traffic etc for what purpose?

2. Do you really think people use the city as a transit area- and they pay the congestion charge just to transit the area? I doubt it

3 See the example in point 1, a 15 fold increase in distance travelled and a similar increase in time -not a substantial increase?

Think again

 

[zimzum42]

Exactly, it seems like some on here think truckers are driving round central London for a laugh. You can be 100% sure they are driving in for a specific purpose, and will be taking the easiest, most direct route possible. No trucker wants to be inching down narrow streets for no good reason

 

[Brains]

Are you serious?????? You want to pedestrianize Oxford Street but still allow buses and taxis???? Insane!

.... and on the BBC's site today they are looking at doing exactly that with Kensington High Street !

It works in Holland and Denmark - So why not here ?

 

[zimzum42]

if you look at the number of buses that use Oxford street, I doubt it compares to anywhere in those little countries.

A much more workable solution would be to have a single express line down oxford street with only a couple of stops, and have the buses work routes at either end

or, one could have a bus route north and south of Oxford st, but that's been proposed before and I think significant problems arose.

cabs should take a hike

 

[Brains]

Spen666 - The City of London, just the square mile. not the whole of Central London. So enter at Liverpool St, you leave at Liverpool St. So the maximum distance we are talking about is half a mile.

Zimzum - I fully appreciate drivers of HGV's don't drive down narrow bendy streets out of choice. An HGV is an unsuitable vehicle for driving in many European cities that were designed with nothing bigger than a horse and cart in mind.

The solution is either you redesign the cities on American lines, with a grid system, or you redesign the vehicles and make them suitable for deliveries within the cities.

HGV's are good for intercity freight. Not for within city local deliveries.

 

[Brains]

if you look at the number of buses that use Oxford street, I doubt it compares to anywhere in those little countries.

A much more workable solution would be to have a single express line down oxford street with only a couple of stops, and have the buses work routes at either end

or, one could have a bus route north and south of Oxford st, but that's been proposed before and I think significant problems arose.

cabs should take a hike

Or give the busses/taxis an ariel roadway. It would not need to be a big motorway type flyover as would only need to be about 3m off the ground and only two lanes wide with a max speed of say 20mph. All the stops would be put up at the higher level.

(Or build a bigger/higher roadway and thereby make it a covered street)

 

[CotterPin]

A big chunk of Oxford Street is closed to private motor traffic at certain times already and it is still wall-to-wall buses and cabs. I am with zimzum that the cabs should be banned but I would think it would be a political hot potato so is unlikely to happen.

I think the issue is the number of minor roads that cross Oxford Street - if these could be minimised (retaining permeability for cyclists, naturally) perhaps that would improve traffic flows.