Lorry and bike 'can share road'

[zimzum42]

The Singaporeans have just built a nice little flyover along Cross Street, it's similar to Oxford Street in some ways. The flyover is just a couple of lanes wide and doesn't look too shabby. Oxford st is already pretty hideous so I don;t see that it would be a bad thing.....

I love cycling down Oxford street, it's a real thrill when you go fast dwn the bus tunnel that is created....

 

[BentMikey]

Brains, the Netherlands is so great to ride in *in spite* of the cycle lanes, not because of them. It's largely because of driver attitude, and the drivers being assumed to be at fault in civil liability in claims when involved in a collision with a vulnerable road user, unless they can prove otherwise.

 

[Brains]

Brains, the Netherlands is so great to ride in *in spite* of the cycle lanes, not because of them. It's largely because of driver attitude, and the drivers being assumed to be at fault in civil liability in claims when involved in a collision with a vulnerable road user, unless they can prove otherwise.

Obviously driver attitude and the liability are significant issues, however that fact that almost every road in the land has an area set aside for bikes (and not for cars) means that it is easy an safe to cycle along even a main road, in the dark without lights.

Whilst obviously cycling along a main road in the dark without lights is far from advisable, that fact that its is reasonably safe to do so (as far as being hit by a car is concerned) is because of the cycle lanes.

The issue is if we were to copy the Dutch model, put cycle lanes on every road possible, make car drivers liable, and do all that was possible to encourage school children to use bikes and rail commuters to use bikes then we could get to half of what the Dutch have now.

The country would save billions every year in fuel, Co2, health, security etc etc . It would also make this country a really nice place to be.

 

[BentMikey]

LOL, and that's why you think cycle lanes are good, when they are not. Being hit from behind is one of the least common accident types. Cycle lanes vastly increase the risk at junctions, to cyclists. They are not a good thing for many reasons.

 

[Brains]

If they encourage cycling by the less experienced then they are good.

 

[BentMikey]

Something that increases the actual risk, whilst reducing the perceived risk is a good thing?

 

[yenrod]

Lorry and bike 'can share road'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7718691.stm

How many lorry drivers would clamber to have Pendy'babes in their cab !

LOTS !!!!!!!

 

[Archie]

Brains, the Netherlands is so great to ride in *in spite* of the cycle lanes, not because of them. It's largely because of driver attitude, and the drivers being assumed to be at fault in civil liability in claims when involved in a collision with a vulnerable road user, unless they can prove otherwise.

I'm struggling to see your logic here. Because of the civil liability laws and the design of cycle lanes in Holland the cyclist is given priority over motorised transport. Driver attitudes derive from that framework.

 

[BentMikey]

Driver attitudes have *nothing* to do with the cycle lanes, except when they are shouting for you to get on the cycle lane as you will have found riding there, no doubt. The attitude comes mostly from the burden of proof change, and from the fact that most people cycle over there. Safety in numbers.

Cycle lanes are only good at protecting from being hit from behind, oh and getting cyclists out of the way of motorists. They are very bad at junctions because there they increase complexity and confuse priority. Even my Dutch friends complain about junction near misses.

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html

 

[Cab]

I'm struggling to see your logic here. Because of the civil liability laws and the design of cycle lanes in Holland the cyclist is given priority over motorised transport. Driver attitudes derive from that framework.

What evidence do you have that driver attitudes do indeed derive from that framework, rather than the infrastructural and legislative framework being constructed because attitudes are different?

 

[Cab]

Driver attitudes have *nothing* to do with the cycle lanes, except when they are shouting for you to get on the cycle lane as you will have found riding there, no doubt. The attitude comes mostly from the burden of proof change, and from the fact that most people cycle over there. Safety in numbers.

Cycle lanes are only good at protecting from being hit from behind, oh and getting cyclists out of the way of motorists. They are very bad at junctions because there they increase complexity and confuse priority. Even my Dutch friends complain about junction near misses.

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html

Cycle lanes are rather like cheap and nasty mountain bikes. They encourage people to start cycling, but the experience is so bad that they soon give up again.

 

[Brains]

Cycle lanes are rather like cheap and nasty mountain bikes. They encourage people to start cycling, but the experience is so bad that they soon give up again.

Totally agree! You give someone a cheap, badly designed, not fit for purpose Mountain bike/Cycle road/Car/Public Transport system you can put people off for life.

Of course if you give them the opposite you get people hooked for ever

 

[Cab]

Totally agree! You give someone a cheap, badly designed, not fit for purpose Mountain bike/Cycle road/Car/Public Transport system you can put people off for life.

Of course if you give them the opposite you get people hooked for ever

There is no evidence that giving people good cycle lanes improves their safety. The evidnece from Holland is that better attitudes to cyclists improve the cycling experience, the claim that this stems from having better cycle lanes is rather a big leap.

 

[Brains]

However they do have wonderful cycle roads, so there has to be a degree of connection between the quality of a facility and the number of users.

 

[dondare]

It would not be possible to copy the Amsterdam cycle-lanes in London any more than we could copy their canals. There just ain't the room, even if it did seem like a good idea.
Which it isn't. The Dutch simply have a completely different attitude to bikes than the British, and that's what we really need to copy.
In fact, the Dutch cycle-lanes are not always appreciated by cyclists who are in the sort of tearing hurry that Londoners are in all the time; there, as here, if you want to get somewhere fast you ride on the real roads.