LeMond: Armstrong was top 30 rider at best.

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ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
And how do we know Lemond was riding clean ................?
Obviously, we can never prove a negative, but ...

As I have mentioned before, I got into cycling again in 1989, inspired by Lemond's win over Fignon and looked forward to following his career after that. He did win the Tour again the following year, but IIRC, he made it look like hard work and didn't win any stages.

From 1990 onwards, Lemond seemed to lose his competitive age. At the time, it was said to be due to lead poisoning from pellets left in his body after his hunting accident, but it coincided with the introduction of EPO to the peloton. Other top riders such as Andy Hampsten also suddenly started to struggle as the peloton got faster.

It seems clear to me that it was the 'donkeys' who started looking like 'race horses' who were cheating, not the race horses who, relatively speaking, started performing like donkeys!
 

The Couch

Über Member
Location
Crazytown
A bit of topic perhaps... :smile:
but this looks a top 30 (acting) performance:
76366.jpg

FYI... this is the first image from Stephen Frears' Lance Armstrong Film. (Lance played by Ben Foster)

(Although what I see from them... the calves look a bit too "footballer-like" and not as sinewy muscled as with LA)
 

VamP

Banned
Location
Cambs


I don't know what that means, but it's virtually impossible to think of any TdF champion that is less likely to have used PEDs than LeMond. As for the rest of your rant, it's just a random collection of names associated with doping, it doesn't even make any sense as a narrative.
 

The Couch

Über Member
Location
Crazytown
to be fair lemond was entering his 30's by then and if EPO was widespread from around the mid 90's, could of been a case of just getting to old for the game..
Fair point, even Indurain (called "mutant" on the "Vayer-scale" :smile: - whatever the value you want to give to that of course - ) failed to get number 6 when he turned 32
 
OP
OP
Hont

Hont

Guru
Location
Bromsgrove
I see the forum has been missing an Armstong related thread. Glad to plug the gap in the market. ;)

I think Greg's statement comes from seeing Armstrong's numbers, which were not those of a GT winner. So, as I haven't seen Armstrong's lab results and don't have Greg's expertise and knowledge, I'm happy to take his word for it. All those of you with more knowledge than Greg, feel free to put him right.

And as for Greg being a doper, do me a favour. This is the man, don't forget, who declined to work with Dr Ferrari because Ferrari didn't understand why Greg wanted to measure his own power output when training. This is a mirror of Sky's statement that everyone was concentrating so much on doping they forgot to advance in training techniques - only 25 years ago.
 

The Couch

Über Member
Location
Crazytown
Don't be silly. Even 42 is not too old to be a GT winner :whistle:
Maybe it has something to do with build-up effect... a body can only be enhanced X amount of times when shooting the extremely high (maximum?) doses ;) ?
(I'm thinking Indurain, Riis, Ugrumov, Olano, Julich, Dufaux... all people who had a quite drastic drop-off in results :smile:)

(I could have been naught and added "Andy Schleck?" there as well, but I'm not like that :shy:)
 
Hey, this has to be a contender for the most out of touch post of the year, surely?
No, no, he's made others.

I remember watching Lemond in his final tour. He was plainly pissed off at the way the peloton was riding. At the time I was a bit green to understand what he was insinuating but there was no way he was past it at 30.
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
I don't know what that means, but it's virtually impossible to think of any TdF champion that is less likely to have used PEDs than LeMond. As for the rest of your rant, it's just a random collection of names associated with doping, it doesn't even make any sense as a narrative.

Tsk tsk, play the ball not the man. Don't throw a tantrum and become obnoxious just because some dares to take a different view to you. Seems just the sort of behaviour a certain fallen cyclist would endulge in.
 

LimeBurn

Über Member
Location
Sheffield
It is terrible what happened to Lance's adversaries in the grimy tale of his Faustian pact.... Nobody can excuse what he did to others and I imagine nobody will try.

But we are a society who can read Mario Puzo and identify with Vito or Michael. We know the deal they've made with fate and we are somehow quite attracted to its absolute and brutal inflexibility. As long as it is kept to the pages of a novel or a TV screen, there is something noble and animal about the absolute imposition of a code of Omerta or Gjakemarrje.

Then we see that it has crept off the screen and is being practised by Mr Armstrong. "If we are going to cheat, you are in or you are out. There can be no passengers. The rewards are great, but the risks are too. No room for passengers".

I paraphrase terribly, but the parallel with the Corleone family is not completely invalid. For Armstrong's conceit to flourish, obedience, respect and silence had to be absolute. I think him the damaged and slimy product of a twisted relationship with a devoted mother who poured into her son the energy and love she kept failing to receive from the men in her life. There is so much damage in his childhood - and he did the thing men so often do... he turned it on those who stood against him as an adult. Again I simplify a very complex series of issues.

I still hold him in high regard for the racing that he and the clean guys around him produced in those glory years of smashed records and sprinted climbs and just magnificent maulings of guys who were ever-so-nearly just as fast. I was never a fanboy (although I was close to that with Pantani, who never doped).

But I do see a Cosa Nostra granite in the absolute nature of the loyalty (fear) that Lance demanded in his pomp. It should have been a film.

"We have to go now, Tessio. I can't come with you. You go in that car".

"OK Tom. Tell Lance it was only business. I always liked Lance, it was just business."
Hope you're quote about Pantani was tongue in cheek!!
 
No, no, he's made others.

I remember watching Lemond in his final tour. He was plainly ****ed off at the way the peloton was riding. At the time I was a bit green to understand what he was insinuating but there was no way he was past it at 30.
He did also have that incident involving a shotgun. He is quoted saying he was never the same afterward and that it was a unfortunate turning point in his career. The fact that the majority of the peloton were wired to the moon on EPO certainly left a bitter taste in his mouth, in the early 90's.

Interesting though if you think that Lemond would not dope under any circumstance but was happy to soil himself and continue riding with it all running down his legs and his bike.

To summarise Lemond would rather ride a bike in his own sh*t than to dope to win. Gotta love that.
 
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