LeMond: Armstrong was top 30 rider at best.

[Crackle]

maybe his body reacted to the drugs better.

it must have been a fairly level playing field at that time in the pro scene.

Both of them can't be right.

 

[LimeBurn]

Can't agree with the rose tinted as like I said I'm no Armstrong fanboy just a realist when it comes to history, the amount of doping cases from top riders speak for itself and Armstrong was top of the tree in that period. My comment on how his body reacted was due to a comment is heard about his vo2max results were among the highest tested at the time, surely they were testing other doped riders.

 

[400bhp]

Can't agree with the rose tinted as like I said I'm no Armstrong fanboy just a realist when it comes to history, the amount of doping cases from top riders speak for itself and Armstrong was top of the tree in that period. My comment on how his body reacted was due to a comment is heard about his vo2max results were among the highest tested at the time, surely they were testing other doped riders.

Not really showing us that.

 

[LimeBurn]

Don't have to show you anything, it's just an opinion. My original reply was I dont know why he gets so much bad press as he is just one of many.

 

[SWSteve]

I'm not going to say doping is correct, however I don't understand why it is only Lance who seems to have had titles taken away from him since retirement.

note: I know there have been others, but I never hear about them - this I guess would be due to a) lance sells the front page, b) he won the 'biggest prize' more times

 

[Noodley]

My comment on how his body reacted was due to a comment is heard about his vo2max results were among the highest tested at the time

Yet another Armstrong lie.

 

[montage]

Don't have to show you anything, it's just an opinion. My original reply was I dont know why he gets so much bad press as he is just one of many.

Throughout your years the chances are, as with every other human being, that you have said things that you regret saying, that seem foolish with hindsight, that you would love to take back.
After much soul searching and trying to find the light, you shall realise that your comments on this topic are one of these things.

 

[ayceejay]

I don't think it is any secret that a lot of cyclists used some form of drug to effect their own personal performance, what sets Armstrong apart is that he wanted to have an effect on everyone's performance.

 

[Noodley]

I'm not going to say doping is correct, however I don't understand why it is only Lance who seems to have had titles taken away from him since retirement.

note: I know there have been others, but I never hear about them - this I guess would be due to a) lance sells the front page, b) he won the 'biggest prize' more times

You need to do a bit more reading then.

 

[ColinJ]

I like lemond my first autograph poster was a Greg Lemond...but it's all bit boring now, Armstrong is gone, good riddance but sometimes I feel Lemond can't move on because if he was to, he'd have nothing else to talk about,

Being world champion twice, and winning the Tour de France three times (twice despite nearly dying after being shot), perhaps ...?

 

[Hacienda71]

Or if you can't be bothered reading watch this.

If you can be bothered reading The Secret Race is a damn good read.

 

[slowmotion]

Armstrong, surrounded by a whole bunch of sycophants, tries to bully LeMond. It's quite chilling.

[media]
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH650Br8uI
[/media]

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I don't think it is any secret that a lot of cyclists used some form of drug to effect their own personal performance, what sets Armstrong apart is that he wanted to have an effect on everyone's performance.

Exactly. Let's not forget, Armstrong was not just a guy who doped and kept it private. He had an entire network of people dedicated specifically to supporting his doping activities, forcing others to choose between doping to support him or being ejected from the team, intimidating anyone who questioned him both within races and outside, using his political connections and money to try to close down investigations and positive tests.

The appropriate comparison here is not to a guy who was just another small-time crook like all the others, but to a capo - a mafia don.

Having said all that, I still think that if he comes completely clean (as Cookson wants), that he has a chance for a certain kind of rehabilitation, and as this whole thing recedes into history, like it or not, he'll still be remembered as a rider who won 7 Tours, yes doped, another in the long line of TdF cheats, but he will not be a blank space in the history of cycling. I also don't buy LeMond's argument that he would have certainly been an also-ran: that assumes that his doping techniques were so much superior to the others who were also doping that they had more effect on him than those others (Riis, Ullrich, Pantani etc. etc.). For all that Armstrong is a nasty piece of work, a liar, a bully and a cheat, he's also, still, an amazing athlete. It seems rather silly to deny that. It's like saying that Pantani wasn't much of a climber really...

 

[raindog]

.......good riddance but sometimes I feel Lemond can't move on because if he was to, he'd have nothing else to talk about,

Greg was asked questions during a CNN interview, he could hardly just sit there without speaking.

 

[Noodley]

...he's also, still, an amazing athlete. It seems rather silly to deny that. It's like saying that Pantani wasn't much of a climber really...

We'll never really know if they were. I am adopting the position that they would not have been had it not been for doping. Which, from everything I have read, seems to be the most logical position to adopt.

I'd go with LeMond's top 30 at best option.