Just how bad are drivers, in general?

[Fastpedaller]

I suppose it’s a case of which is your primary choice of transport. What is your go to mode of travel?

Many years ago I was insuring my car (only had one car then) on a limited mileage policy. The insurer wanted to know the 'numbers' of my other vehicles and said it was a condition of limited mileage that you had another vehicle (seems odd, but they make the 'rules'). I gave the frame numbers of my bicycles, and their reply was " they are unusual numbers". I explained that I did about 10k miles per year on my bike and that was my primary transport and the numbers of my 2 bikes at the time, used pretty much each day to work and weekends. To my surprise, they accepted that and issued the policy. It's the only time I've 'beaten' the insurers (and it was also the truth before anyone questions it. )

 

[Andy in Germany]

Unsurprising in a country that has vending machines that sell used schoolgirls knickers.

I've been to Japan more times than I can remember and travelled a fair bit there, and I've never seen any such machine, not that I was looking, I hasten to add.

 

[Drago]

One exception to this was a gent with schizophrenia, who apparently drove at about 200km/h late one night through the town while in a full-blown schizophrenic hallucination. As you can imagine this ended baldly and his licence was revoked, but it was a practical measure, not a punishment.

I'm a big fan of bans for persistent law breakers and dangerous drivers. Not as a punishment in and of itself because it doesn't seem to deter them, but because decent law abiding citizens are safer when they're not on the road.

Personally I think driving bans should be for life. It's very difficult to lose a driving licence, it takes either persistent and sustained effort of a short period of time, one one almighty piece of nastiness. Anyone prepared to go to that much effort to get themselves banned in the first place is clearly not trustworthy as far as driving goes.

 

[ianrauk]

I've been to Japan more times than I can remember and travelled a fair bit there, and I've never seen any such machine, not that I was looking, I hasten to add.

That's because they don't exist.

 

[Drago]

That's because they don't exist.

Yet there are photos and articles about them all over the Web and in magazines...

https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-machines-fact-fiction

I think Andy is probably not the sort of gentleman who would frequent the dark corners of they type of buildings where there's are/used to be found.

 

[mjr]

Yet there are photos and articles about them all over the Web and in magazines...

You still believe random websites? How cute! 😸

Would you like to buy a bridge? 😉

 

[raleighnut]

I'm a big fan of bans for persistent law breakers and dangerous drivers. Not as a punishment in and of itself because it doesn't seem to deter them, but because decent law abiding citizens are safer when they're not on the road.

Personally I think driving bans should be for life. It's very difficult to lose a driving licence, it takes either persistent and sustained effort of a short period of time, one one almighty piece of nastiness. Anyone prepared to go to that much effort to get themselves banned in the first place is clearly not trustworthy as far as driving goes.

Wouldn't stop em driving though, how many people continue to drive when banned or drive unsupervised on provisional licences, then there are the Indian/Pakistani drivers who pretend to be their brother/uncle/cousin the eastern Europeans who pretend not to speak English, ditto Arabs and Africans. I knew a guy who drove a motorway recovery vehicle who was frequently called by the police to deal with breakdowns/accidents and he'd never even applied for a provisional and the fella who put our Conservatory up who despite having a company van didn't have a driving licence. I could go on for pages

 

[Bristolian]

I've never known a class of lawbreaker treated by society and the justice system as leniently as road criminals.

Part of the problem is that "class of lawbreaker" is the majority of society. Okay, they may not be the majority but they're a pretty large minority and most of their cohorts don't see anything wrong as they're doing exactly the same. Even if the Government was to magically recruit 10,000 additional traffic officers tomorrow I'm not sure they would make much of a difference for quite some time to come. Indeed, road anarchy may well have reached critical mass and, like a nuclear detonation, is unstoppable.

 

[Badger_Boom]

Part of the problem is that "class of lawbreaker" is the majority of society. Okay, they may not be the majority but they're a pretty large minority and most of their cohorts don't see anything wrong as they're doing exactly the same. Even if the Government was to magically recruit 10,000 additional traffic officers tomorrow I'm not sure they would make much of a difference for quite some time to come. Indeed, road anarchy may well have reached critical mass and, like a nuclear detonation, is unstoppable.

Just take a look (but don't waste too much time on it) at any of the thousands of social media feeds of dash-cam footage, or more importantly the viewer comments. Ignoring the frequent 'it was the cyclist's fault' quips, the astonishing ignorance of the Highway Code and the lengths commenters go to to to justify their earnestly held opinions is a terrifying revelation.

 

[presta]

Indeed, road anarchy may well have reached critical mass and, like a nuclear detonation, is unstoppable.

An argument I heard from a Chief Constable forty odd years ago:

The police maintain law & order by common consent, not by force, and the consent of the public depends on the majority feeling like they are law-abiding citizens. Most people break the law in minor ways occasionally, so if the police were to ever acquire the means to enforce every minor infraction, it would make too many feel like law breakers, so the consent that the police rely upon would break down, and law & order along with it.

 

[Bristolian]

An argument I heard from a Chief Constable forty odd years ago:

The police maintain law & order by common consent, not by force, and the consent of the public depends on the majority feeling like they are law-abiding citizens. Most people break the law in minor ways occasionally, so if the police were to ever acquire the means to enforce every minor infraction, it would make too many feel like law breakers, so the consent that the police rely upon would break down, and law & order along with it.

Yes, a statement I have read before, and I believe we have reached the point where consent has been withdrawn and law and order is on the brink. Throughout my life I have been very optimistic with a positive attitude towards everything but right now I'm glad I'm (virtually) 70 and not 20.

 

[Gillstay]

Yes, a statement I have read before, and I believe we have reached the point where consent has been withdrawn and law and order is on the brink. Throughout my life I have been very optimistic with a positive attitude towards everything but right now I'm glad I'm (virtually) 70 and not 20.

I find it odd as well how certain cities seem to be poor as well. Bristol car drivers often seems much worse than I expect despite many cyclists.

Why is very hard to consider.

 

[Bristolian]

I find it odd as well how certain cities seem to be poor as well. Bristol car drivers often seems much worse than I expect despite many cyclists.

Why is very hard to consider.

I deliberately don't drive into Bristol very often (I live on the outskirts about 4 miles NE from the centre) but today had to cross the city to visit a relative in hospital. It was a six mile drive each way which took 55 minutes getting there and 48 minutes getting home again. What I experienced was motorists becoming progressively more frustrated and, consequently, more aggressive the closer I got to the city centre. The city is close to grid-lock with average speeds lower than it was twenty years ago - 12 mph - and that probably explains (but doesn't excuse) the overall poor driving in Bristol.

I witnesses two cyclists that were very nearly knocked off their bikes and my dashcam footage has been sent to the police via their web site. What I also witnessed was the fact that bikes are faster in the city than cars are as they can filter through the stop-start traffic and they tend to make use of the segregated cycle lanes (where provided). I didn't see any cyclist ride through red lights although there were multiple opportunities for it.

 

[Profpointy]

I find it odd as well how certain cities seem to be poor as well. Bristol car drivers often seems much worse than I expect despite many cyclists.

Why is very hard to consider.

I live in Bristol, and did a significant cycle commute for 10 years and my experience is the exact opposite.

 

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

The local constabulory do seem to take a 'softly softly' approach to policing roads - although it seems to vary by the officer that deals with the incident. I've just started a spreadsheet to track the results of my video evidence submissions. For a driver that committed three offences (driving on the footway, failing to look (driving without due care and attention) and ignoring a solid white line - a formal warning letter was issued which I understand only stays on record for 6 weeks.

Leaves me wondering, as a driver, what do you have to do in order to be 'punished'? And if there is no punishment, what is the deterrent? Ultimately, not killing or injuring anyone is the deterrent. But that doesn't seem to be in the back of, let alone the front of most drivers minds. That said, there is one particular officer who has reported all the drivers I've submitted evidence on for an offence.

Policing by consent looks to rather fall apart when 80% of the population are drivers and a high proportion of those are ignorant. There's queuing traffic around our estate most mornings at the moment due to roadworks. The phone driving is endemic. It is almost literally every other driver. And they are so situationally unaware, that they block the pedestrian crossings.

Anyway, I saw something absolutely ridiculous t'other day. I'd taken the van out, owing periodic torrential rain and visited a retail park. The vehicle that turned into the retail park ahead of me had the upper 2/3rd of the passenger side of their windscreen completely obscured by a sun blind. How can you drive a vehicle having blocked off half the view out of the front window? 🤦‍♂️