smutchin
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Yeah, that's fine if what you want to see is lots and lots and lots of athletes dropping dead by their mid-30s.
ITV4's review of doping issues, broadcast on the TdF rest day
- Thread starter suzeworld
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Cycling Dan
Cycle Crazy
Most of them dope now. Not many of them are dead. A lot of the illegal methods are impossible to detect. Blood doping being one of them. Also if they are going to dope they are going to have the people with the know how to give the person the drug so risk should be at a mim.
At the end of it all there are a lot of ifs and buts. For, aginsts, it's not black and white like I said at the start.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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- The Red Enclave
You might want to check a few facts before continuing this discussion.
Cycling Dan
Cycle Crazy
Rather than a lot I should have put most of which are used. Which is why there is no absaloute proof Armstrong doped - in terms of proof from science of him doping- if that makes sense. With blood doping for example you can do it naturally which is legal but expensive. In turn there is no way to tell the difference if you we're to do blood tests as all it would show is a increased red blood cell count.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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No, what will happen is they'll take the risks anyway because they'll consider the potential gains worthwhile.
Does the name Florence Griffith Joyner mean nothing to you?
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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I think you've just scientifically proved that you are a nobber.
Cycling Dan
Cycle Crazy
This is very much all he said she said. No proof at all and ME said drugs were not involved in her death. I can't explain the increased performance but again there was no proof of illegal drug use.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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Go on, keep digging.
Cycling Dan
Cycle Crazy
Anyhow I'm not defending drugs use but nor am I against them. It's a grey area and I don't see it as black and white which is what I said at the start. Many for and vs, lots of ifs and buts. Drug use is bad and good. It's not either or. You have to evaluate for that person ad decide which side it learns to the most.
You need to do a bit more reading up on this because you are not making sense, in fact you're factually wrong and as such, no meaningful discussion can be had.
Cycling Dan
Cycle Crazy
Which bit being wrong exactly. The blood doping part is correct of course some parts of blood doping is detectable by antigens and co count but that does not work for all versions of blood doping. I specifically talking about one kind where you can do it naturally eg being on top of a mountain and artificially were you cant tell if it was naturally done or artificially. I don't remember the name of the specific blood doping though(trying to find my a2 bio book for it). Lastly there is no scientific proof Armstrong did doping- of course we know he did- team testimony and confession.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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- The Red Enclave
Moderators - please shut down this thread now, for the sake of everyone's sanity.
(Is "Lance never tested positive" the cycling forum equivalent of Godwin's law?)
(Is "Lance never tested positive" the cycling forum equivalent of Godwin's law?)
Leaving aside that there are non-admissable positives, leaving aside that proof takes many forms, not just a positive test, there are ways of telling when blood is re-introduced, even if it's your own blood, this is one of the things the bio-passport can pick up on, reticule levels etc... Armstrong's own 2010 passport levels were highly suspicious if not conclusive.
We also know that doping doesn't affect every rider in an equal way. There is evidence now that riders are taking drugs which have not been approved for clinical use and which cause cancers. Do you really think allowing drug use to 'even things up' is wise. Before the 50% haemocrit level, riders were dying in their sleep. The team managers used to wake them up in the night and get them on a static trainer. Is this a vision of sport which sits fine with you, one you'd be happy to introduce your son or daughter or friend too?
I think I understand the point you're trying to make but as fa as I'm concerned there is no grey area. We've also done this several times in racing, which is why I sound a bit weary.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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- The Red Enclave
On the one hand, Dan's saying there's no scientific proof Lance doped and we only know he doped because he confessed.
On the other hand, there's no scientific proof Flo Jo doped so she must have been clean.
Does nothing seem slightly odd about that line of reasoning to you?
I've had enough of rehashing these tired old arguments, so for that reason, ah'm oot.
