Increase in seizures of illegal ebikes

[Dogtrousers]

Another report on the BBC
Delivery riders getting illegal e-bikes seized

​

Not surprising as central London must represent really low-hanging fruit if you want to find illegal e-bikes.

Wander through Soho and you're almost guaranteed to see people zipping around not on bikes that have been modified, but purpose-built e-motorbikes with huge fat tyres. Actually, given the congestion there they can't pick up much speed, and they can't use the pavements because they are too small and crowded so they aren't any more of a nuisance than the rest of the traffic. But they are definitely noticeable.

 

[vickster]

Recently in Sutton, police were accompanied by Border Force. Number of arrests of riders on expired visas arrested. Good to see the delivery companies properly verify right to work as well as ensuring their employees use legal modes of transport 🙄

 

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

Remember? How can we forget? Even many cyclists accept the false idea that they're bikes.

Whether they are legal or not, they are bikes.
Given that 'bike' is an all encompassing general term that can mean for instance bicycle, motorcycle, electric motorcycle.

What they are not, is EACPs.

I think you need to be careful about accusing cyclists of accepting false ideas.

 

[raleighnut]

Can you point out the wording, please? I haven't found any such wording and I suspect this may be a myth.

The regulation applies to the SALE OF NEW EPAC'S it does not mention usage, likewise the regs allow the SALE of higher powered EPAC's marked for 'off road usage' only, it is illegal to use these on the road but it always was even under the prior rules

 

[mjr]

The regulation applies to the SALE OF NEW EPAC'S it does not mention usage, likewise the regs allow the SALE of higher powered EPAC's marked for 'off road usage' only, it is illegal to use these on the road but it always was even under the prior rules

OK. So why would a trike built and legal under the prior rules but not conforming to the current rules be "still OK to ride" on road now? Or wouldn't it?

 

[raleighnut]

OK. So why would a trike built and legal under the prior rules but not conforming to the current rules be "still OK to ride" on road now? Or wouldn't it?

For the same reason that a car built before the requirements for seat belts to be fitted is still legal to drive on the road or should cars built before 1965* be banned from the roads. I had a couple of friends who had classic sports cars (one an MG Tc the other a Jaguar XK 120 and neither car was capable of having belts 'retro fitted' as there was nowhere to bolt them)

* Cars built after 1965 but sold without seat belts had to have them 'retro fitted' but pre 65 cars are exempt

 

[Badger_Boom]

OK. So why would a trike built and legal under the prior rules but not conforming to the current rules be "still OK to ride" on road now? Or wouldn't it?

Presumably for the same reason the my 1968 Morris Minor can be driven legally and without wearing a seatbelt because it doesn't have factory fitted ones which weren't a legal requirement when it was built.

 

[raleighnut]

Presumably for the same reason the my 1968 Morris Minor can be driven legally and without wearing a seatbelt because it doesn't have factory fitted ones which weren't a legal requirement when it was built.

Potentially thin ground there as post 65 cars sold without seatbelts were supposed to have belts 'retro fitted' but if memory serves the Moggy could only have a 'lap strap' fitted as there was no provision on the B pillar to bolt an over the shoulder one on to.

 

[mjr]

For the same reason that a car built before the requirements for seat belts to be fitted is still legal to drive on the road [...]
* Cars built after 1965 but sold without seat belts had to have them 'retro fitted' but pre 65 cars are exempt

Nope, that doesn't work: the law specifically allows use of motor vehicles without seat belts "if no adult seat belt is available" and no law has yet required pre-65 cars to have them available. I've found no similar exception which would except pre-1983 e-bikes from the current rules. (Not that the current rules seem particularly difficult, other than the power limit and mph cut-off.)

Presumably for the same reason the my 1968 Morris Minor can be driven legally and without wearing a seatbelt because it doesn't have factory fitted ones which weren't a legal requirement when it was built.

That appears to be a specific exception written into the current law. There seems not to be a similar exception in the e-bike laws.

 

[Drago]

Just a thought, Mr Nut. I presume you have evidence your steed was built/converted under the old regulatory regime?

 

[fossyant]

Recently in Sutton, police were accompanied by Border Force. Number of arrests of riders on expired visas arrested. Good to see the delivery companies properly verify right to work as well as ensuring their employees use legal modes of transport 🙄

Not employees, so the Delivery companies don't care - not their responsibility. Classed as self employed.

 

[mjr]

Not employees, so the Delivery companies don't care - not their responsibility. Classed as self employed.

Oh but the delivery companies say they care.

Because it's much harder to take action against someone saying "yes, yes, we agree with you. We'll do something about it" and then doing nothing.

 

[presta]

the law specifically allows use of motor vehicles without seat belts "if no adult seat belt is available" and no law has yet required pre-65 cars to have them available

That's what everyone's telling you, are you trying to contradict them with their own argument? Laws aren't retrospective, if you have a vehicle that was built before a new regulation was introduced, you don't have to scrap it. Old cars with rod & cable brakes won't pass the current MOT, but they're still allowed on the road.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Cycling UK - who have lawyers and stuff so might be expected to be better informed than us - say:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-library/regulations/eapc-regulations

Note: twist-and-go e-bikes bought before the introduction of the new laws and limited to a 250W motor rating remain effectively legal and so can be legally purchased and used as secondhand models.​

...

... No power without pedalling, which must be a feature of any post-2015 legal e-bike ...​

Make of that what you will.

They seem to have cherry picked some things to be grandfathered in (twist and go) but not others (250W limit)

 

[wiggydiggy]

Cycling UK - who have lawyers and stuff so might be expected to be better informed than us - say:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-library/regulations/eapc-regulations

Note: twist-and-go e-bikes bought before the introduction of the new laws and limited to a 250W motor rating remain effectively legal and so can be legally purchased and used as secondhand models.​

...

... No power without pedalling, which must be a feature of any post-2015 legal e-bike ...​

Make of that what you will.

They seem to have cherry picked some things to be grandfathered in (twist and go) but not others (250W limit)

There was a consulation opened ealier this year to allow larger motors T&G throttles, I'm not sure how much support it got before the Tories lost. Smarter regulation: proposed changes to legislation for electrically assisted pedal cycles Published 29 February 2024