Increase in seizures of illegal ebikes

[Ming the Merciless]

I suspect the police can only really go for those that are travelling in excess of the speed limit (or much faster than other cyclists) and aren't pedalling

shoot, that’s why they were chasing me down that hill…

 

[Dadam]

If it's never had one, I question the reputation of that bike shop! Presumably at least the "Cube" sticker is still there?

Can't remember if it had one or not, I just assumed it did. I didn't take photos of every angle and surface after taking possession. The shop were the Electric Bike Shop who have a dozen or so branches nationally. It's due for a service including the motor so I'll mention it.

The legal framework looks very simple. It does leave big grey areas, so the safest thing is to stick to the government's interpretation unless you really like arguing with policeman. I find that sort of thing really slows down journeys, so I'd just make and fit some of the stupid stickers for mph and W.

I would certainly not describe it as "simple"!
I no longer have a converted bike. I removed the kit and put the donor bike back to standard, but the motor still carries the sticker I was sent by the kit providers after I pestered them that it only had the motor voltage on it.

 

[classic33]

Show me where I said we should accept their use? That market needs intervention to stop it encouraging use of all sorts of illegal vehicles. Targetting the illegal motorbikes will probably see some switch to illegal car driving instead, which is less obvious a target but a far bigger threat to others.

At present, there's greater attention paid to illegal motor vehicles on the road than illegal use of what many claim are bicycles. However if on-pavement use, in pedestrianised areas is causing problems, then they have to act.

Oh that's almost cute! Short-term crackdowns are not general enforcement and so people will still not estimate that the risk of being caught is high. Also, if the crackdowns are primarily on e-motorbikes, it will seem to some that any car is a good move, whether or not they are insured to drive it or even hold a valid UK licence: anything that doesn't ping ANPR will be good enough. An illegal rider with a branded cube backpack is pretty visible and identifiable, an easy target. Illegal drivers with cubes in the footwells are much less obvious.

Things should be restructured to remove most incentives to use the illegal bikes. As well as intervening in the takeaway market, government should be setting traffic lights to give green waves at legal bike average speeds (so faster ones get red lights, which need policing anyway) and things like that.

The thing to remember is that many see them as legal bikes, with electric assist. Official classification is a Light Moped, not motorbike.

Not as easy identify as you claim. Working on your delivery rider proviso, you're identifying the backpack, not the rider or vehicle. The illegal e-bike and rider will have very few means of identifying them. At present there's an increasing number of taxi and private hire drivers doing deliveries. Doing this whilst carrying fare paying passengers isn't covered by their operating license or issued plate. Illegal but they're on the road legally.

Why should we adapt to use of illegal use of a vehicle, to allow those travelling faster the ability to continue to flout the rules. How many riders are riding at the faster average speed. Overall the average speed on a bicycle isn't that high, due in part to the roads we share with other vehicles. There's times I'll be faster, times I'll be slower than other vehicles on the roads, due simply to other traffic.

 

[classic33]

Can anyone say (Drago spring to mind) what the Police have to do to confirm that an ebike is illegal to a point where they can confiscate it for further investigation?

If sounds easy - but I suspect it is less easy than it appears

I would presume standard "off the shelf" ebikes (like mine) would just need a quick look for the manufacturers plate
and a quick look for obvious "cheat" devices and it could be allowed to go on its way

I'm not even sure how (or even if) a DIY conversion can become legal as the regs seem to say you need a plate/sticker and any numpty could get one of them

West Yorkshire police say if it's got pedals, and it looks like a bicycle it's a bicycle. Not an illegal e-bike, despite any evidence that may say otherwise. Batteries taped to the frame, large hub motors, moving uphill with no effort from the rider.
This is now showing some signs of change, with e-assist bikes getting a bit more attention than they have in the past.

 

[mjr]

The thing to remember is that many see them as legal bikes, with electric assist. Official classification is a Light Moped, not motorbike.

Remember? How can we forget? Even many cyclists accept the false idea that they're bikes.

Not as easy identify as you claim. Working on your delivery rider proviso, you're identifying the backpack, not the rider or vehicle. The illegal e-bike and rider will have very few means of identifying them.

I meant identify as in "identify as a target for checking", not as in confirm their legal name and shoot, which I think was obvious from the context.

Why should we adapt to use of illegal use of a vehicle, to allow those travelling faster the ability to continue to flout the rules.

Huh? How does adapting the infrastructure to discourage the use of illegal vehicles as I suggested (with the example of a green wave at legal e-bike speed), do anything to allow them to continue to flout the rules? I acknowledge it doesn't prevent it entirely but it's still better than the current broken situation where the infrastructure usually rewards rule-breakers.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Show me where I said we should accept their use? That market needs intervention to stop it encouraging use of all sorts of illegal vehicles. Targetting the illegal motorbikes will probably see some switch to illegal car driving instead, which is less obvious a target but a far bigger threat to others.

I think illegal vehicle use is actually easier to crack down on, should the police choose to, as there are in place options available such as ANPR (fixed and mobile cameras) to monitor for those vehicles.

 

[classic33]

Remember? How can we forget? Even many cyclists accept the false idea that they're bikes.

I meant identify as in "identify as a target for checking", not as in confirm their legal name and shoot, which I think was obvious from the context.

Huh? How does adapting the infrastructure to discourage the use of illegal vehicles as I suggested (with the example of a green wave at legal e-bike speed), do anything to allow them to continue to flout the rules? I acknowledge it doesn't prevent it entirely but it's still better than the current broken situation where the infrastructure usually rewards rule-breakers.

I've seen bicycle delivery riders on unassisted bikes in Leeds. Travelling just as fast, at times, as the powered bikes. The difference being that they were supplying the effort required to move them and bike. Do you target the bag on the back or the vehicle in use?

Part of the reason given is the increase in use on the pavements, not the roads. Their increased use in assaults and thefts being another reason given. So it's not all down to delivery riders.

As I said at times I'm faster than other vehicles, at times I'm slower. If everything is geared towards travelling faster(Your legal e-assist limit.) there is the danger that they will just accept the faster limit, if they're on the road in the first place. Taking it with them when they take to the pavements to get around red lights. And there's not many footpaths with traffic lights to control the flow.

 

[Drago]

Can anyone say (Drago spring to mind) what the Police have to do to confirm that an ebike is illegal to a point where they can confiscate it for further investigation?

If sounds easy - but I suspect it is less easy than it appears

I would presume standard "off the shelf" ebikes (like mine) would just need a quick look for the manufacturers plate
and a quick look for obvious "cheat" devices and it could be allowed to go on its way

I'm not even sure how (or even if) a DIY conversion can become legal as the regs seem to say you need a plate/sticker and any numpty could get one of them

One only needs a reasonable suspicion of an offence and they can seize anything in the investigation of an offence.

Whether it's reasonable, proportionate, likely to happen, or they would have any qualified vehicle examiners to then look at it and make an assessment, is another matter entirely. In reality fairly unlikely to happen.

 

[screenman]

Come on guys surely most of you have good idea of where the money comes from that the ninja style black hoodie ridden Ebike comes from. They are a chosen form of transport for pharmaceutical deliveries.

 

[mjr]

Do you target the bag on the back or the vehicle in use?

It doesn't have to be either/or.

Part of the reason given is the increase in use on the pavements, not the roads. Their increased use in assaults and thefts being another reason given. So it's not all down to delivery riders.

Of those, only thefts appears to have been given as part of the reason. The main motive is given as worry about collisions, not pavement use or assaults.

As I said at times I'm faster than other vehicles, at times I'm slower. If everything is geared towards travelling faster(Your legal e-assist limit.) there is the danger that they will just accept the faster limit, if they're on the road in the first place.

At the moment, much infrastructure is geared towards travelling up to the motor vehicle speed limit, generally 30mph. Setting it up to reward a 15.5mph limit would be gearing it towards travelling slower, not faster.

Taking it with them when they take to the pavements to get around red lights. And there's not many footpaths with traffic lights to control the flow.

If it's pavement/footway, that's already a slam-dunk fixed-penalty offence that just needs enforcing. If it's a cycleway or foot/cycleway, then at least 15.5mph would be a big reduction from the 73mph given in the article.

 

[fossyant]

Come on guys surely most of you have good idea of where the money comes from that the ninja style black hoodie ridden Ebike comes from. They are a chosen form of transport for pharmaceutical deliveries.

They are indeed. Saw a delivery last year right outside work !

 

[screenman]

They are indeed. Saw a delivery last year right outside work !

They are everywhere, villages, towns, and cities, a way bigger problem than many people know about, and those underage kids getting involved are losing their future.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Come on guys surely most of you have good idea of where the money comes from that the ninja style black hoodie ridden Ebike comes from. They are a chosen form of transport for pharmaceutical deliveries.

Around here definitely, all the delivery people use a car that I've seen, all the ninjas on illegal motorbikes I see don't have a delivery bag (or at least not one that carries food!).

 

[screenman]

Around here definitely, all the delivery people use a car that I've seen, all the ninjas on illegal motorbikes I see don't have a delivery bag (or at least not one that carries food!).

It is indeed a huge problem, that does not get much media coverage, or enough anyway.

 

[wiggydiggy]

It is indeed a huge problem, that does not get much media coverage, or enough anyway.

The County Lines problem does seem to be well known, and the Police do at least seem to be trying to stop that.

But it's that 'final mile' to use a delivery term that they don't seem to be able to deal with.